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Old 09-19-2007, 03:35 PM   #41
Stephen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
I am awaiting the start of the leagues - here is hoping one or two of them will take the initiative and start FF off with a clean slate. I could do without all of the FF servers adopting the old draconian TFC league rules.
^^ Post of the day!

I've already witnessed sh1theads whining about backtracking and people using pyros or having more than 1 engineer on their team and all the usual old crap that helped kill TFC on FF servers, and it saddens me. Its a public server cĂșntmuscle, not the hypar-l33t league final.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:29 PM   #42
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ok topic derailed. please lock. thanks.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
^^ Post of the day!

I've already witnessed sh1theads whining about backtracking and people using pyros or having more than 1 engineer on their team and all the usual old crap that helped kill TFC on FF servers, and it saddens me. Its a public server cĂșntmuscle, not the hypar-l33t league final.
That is because preconceived notions from TFC carry over to FF. If they play nearly the same, people will want to play it nearly the same.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:50 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Kao
I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here. Humans have opinions...?

It's pretty cool to see that you've already resorted to attacking me and trying to belittle me with sarcasm.

How am I trying to be a 'smart-alec'? And when exactly did I make any kind of comparison between FF and TF2? In fact, have I stated anything other than I love them both?

Impossible to form a justifiable opinion without comparison? Are you kidding me? So if someone played TF2 and had never played TFC, their opinion is unjustifiable? Would you be able to elaborate on that one? It seems extremely flawed.

I disagree with you stating that most people have given a decent argument or comparison when they claim TF2 is better than FF. It's more like "TF2=Suck" or "TF2 is for kids" or "TF2 doesn't have nades, as a result I hate it" and etc.

As for your last point, why does TF2 need to be compared to TFC in order to be qualified as a good game? Can it not be a good game in its own right?

I have to say though, I very much don't appreciate the attitude you've thrown at me here. I'm pretty sure I never once 'screamed "BIAS!!!"' or anything even similar.

Still, I'm not going to take your flamebait, thanks though.

EDIT to add: Oh yeah, I'll for sure go and see if billions of people want to play TF2. Because you know, I have the manpower and the influence to get it out there, hell, I'm an absolute marketing monster, I have more push than Microsoft, IBM, Intel, and Coca-Cola all combined.... drop the attitude.
I'm sorry that my bitter sarcasm intimidated you, but you took way too much offense if you consider that a flame, and you still completely missed my point.

Let me try another analogy. If someone is raised in a corrupt communist society, they might believe that communism is a great form of government. However, how can they truly justify that opinion if they have not experienced other governments?

I don't know about you, maybe you value any old opinion, but I don't value the opinion of an isolated group that has no basis of comparison. That's why I don't even listen to anyone who played TF2 that hasn't played TFC and/or FF. However, those that have, I do listen to, even if they like TF2 better. I never said TF2 can't be a good game. In fact, I think it will be. I just said that the opinion of a group with no basis of comparison is basically useless to me, and I think it's nonsense to consider it reliable for being "unbiased" because I simply see it as being naive (in an inoffensive way).

And you just seem to be generalizing about the whole "TF2=Suck" nonsense. I can generalize the same about the counter-argument. "WOW YOU GUYS ARE BIASED!" "OMG YOU GUYS ARE FF FANBOIZ"
 


Old 09-19-2007, 11:51 PM   #45
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I don't like TF2 cause I can't really get any better than I am now at it, it is so simple.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:09 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krylon
I'm sorry that my bitter sarcasm intimidated you, but you took way too much offense if you consider that a flame, and you still completely missed my point.

Let me try another analogy. If someone is raised in a corrupt communist society, they might believe that communism is a great form of government. However, how can they truly justify that opinion if they have not experienced other governments?

I don't know about you, maybe you value any old opinion, but I don't value the opinion of an isolated group that has no basis of comparison. That's why I don't even listen to anyone who played TF2 that hasn't played TFC and/or FF. However, those that have, I do listen to, even if they like TF2 better. I never said TF2 can't be a good game. In fact, I think it will be. I just said that the opinion of a group with no basis of comparison is basically useless to me, and I think it's nonsense to consider it reliable for being "unbiased" because I simply see it as being naive (in an inoffensive way).

And you just seem to be generalizing about the whole "TF2=Suck" nonsense. I can generalize the same about the counter-argument. "WOW YOU GUYS ARE BIASED!" "OMG YOU GUYS ARE FF FANBOIZ"
That analogy and the argument makes no sense to me...

How do you personally form an opinion of any game that doesn't have a predecessor?

In order to like TF2 you don't have to compare it to TFC... you can just compare it to other games. Of course there is a basis for comparison, there are other games. In order for the opinion to be valid though it doesn't have to be compared to TFC. TFC isn't the end-all be-all of the video game world. There is such a huge time separation and huge difference in general between the 2 games there is absolutely no need to have played TFC in the past.

In fact, the only additional comparison you gain by having TFC experience is comparing similarities and differences, and that's irrelevant. It's a different game.

So maybe I'm missing your point again, but I definitely don't understand why you think TFC is the only game in the world TF2 could be compared to.

Edit to add: Better look up the definition of intimidation.
 


Old 09-20-2007, 10:48 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EngeeMan
That is because preconceived notions from TFC carry over to FF. If they play nearly the same, people will want to play it nearly the same.
The classes and game dynamic have changed enough for UGC to create a new "play style" Rule set:

""

That's it. No play style rules at all. The rules will be shaped by the community as the FF leagues unfold. The typical admin type rules (show up, no hacking..etc.) will still be in place.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:08 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krylon
I'm sorry that my bitter sarcasm intimidated you, but you took way too much offense if you consider that a flame, and you still completely missed my point.

Let me try another analogy. If someone is raised in a corrupt communist society, they might believe that communism is a great form of government. However, how can they truly justify that opinion if they have not experienced other governments?

I don't know about you, maybe you value any old opinion, but I don't value the opinion of an isolated group that has no basis of comparison. That's why I don't even listen to anyone who played TF2 that hasn't played TFC and/or FF. However, those that have, I do listen to, even if they like TF2 better. I never said TF2 can't be a good game. In fact, I think it will be. I just said that the opinion of a group with no basis of comparison is basically useless to me, and I think it's nonsense to consider it reliable for being "unbiased" because I simply see it as being naive (in an inoffensive way).

And you just seem to be generalizing about the whole "TF2=Suck" nonsense. I can generalize the same about the counter-argument. "WOW YOU GUYS ARE BIASED!" "OMG YOU GUYS ARE FF FANBOIZ"
I always get a laugh out of people who pick the most obscure of analogies to suit their argument.

Maybe if your argument was that people who haven't played FPS' before wouldn't really know a bad game if they played one - and this point is inherently true. But I somehow doubt that was being argued.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:04 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krylon
If someone is raised in a corrupt communist society, they might believe that communism is a great form of government. However, how can they truly justify that opinion if they have not experienced other governments?

I don't know about you, maybe you value any old opinion, but I don't value the opinion of an isolated group that has no basis of comparison.
Yes, I agree.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:34 PM   #50
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Easy easy easy folks. I think for some, the instinct will be to set up FF v. TF2 as a rivalry, or say that if you like one, you have to dislike the other. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If there is truly a general consensus, I think it's that FF is a game more for those who like "skill" and advanced movement possibilities like league TFC had, and that TF2 will be more for those who like a slower pace, fun look and feel, and more forced teamwork.

To me, the most positive development for FF is that there's a definite niche which is left unfilled by TF2, and which FF has proven to be good enough TO fill.

Now the challenge will be letting enough people know this, and hoping they catch on and become enthusiastic about it.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4est
The classes and game dynamic have changed enough for UGC to create a new "play style" Rule set:

""

That's it. No play style rules at all. The rules will be shaped by the community as the FF leagues unfold. The typical admin type rules (show up, no hacking..etc.) will still be in place.
Sure, the league has done away with the rules. However, I'd be willing to bet any amount of money that a fair amount of people will still play with those rules in mind and get mad when those "rules" are broken. I can see the forums posts now advocating for OvO and max D rules be put in place. I hope I am wrong but the very fact that there are "clan style" pub servers popping up with people whining about those rules being broken indicate that I am probbaly not.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:07 PM   #52
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dont worry its only a very new mod and for this early it has a very big community it will grow cause tf players usually have old school pc's no offense to the old school and i have a newer hp and tf2 has some steam requires and plus its like dog poo in a expensive purse its nice on the outside but when it comes down to it its shit in a bag
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:18 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direhit
Perhaps its the general consensus around here, but I know tons of people, including myself, are absolutely loving TF2.

Tons can be called a minority among 100 of thousands or few millions ^_^ so your tons dont matter much :P
 


Old 09-24-2007, 10:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kao
Are you going to blame them for making a different game?

Some people take franchises too seriously. "This is hardly a TF game."
It's actually great that TF2 and FF are different from each other and came out at the same time. Now people can choose between old school Team Fortress or a new kind of TF. Or they can play both. If TF2 had ended up being a remake of TFC, we'd just have two remakes with different graphics. That would have sucked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyPilgrim
I honestly don't think ANYONE can say which is better and which is crap. If you like FF, awesome, play it and have fun. If you like TF2, awesome, play it and have fun. If you like TFC, awesome, play it and have fun.

Don't come bitching about the other game. It's just like how some people prefer playing strategy games, but someone likes first person shooters. We all have different tastes and styles, so please don't bash on someone else's tastes. It's just childish to do so.
Criticizing a game or choosing one game over another doesn't mean that you're bashing someone else's tastes. Also, what do you think game reviewers do for a living? They "bitch" about games. Should they stop doing that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguax
DING DING DING DING, we have a winner! The above is an example of a good, UNBIASED post.
No. He still has his own biases like every other human being on the planet. Not even scientists are free of bias.
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Old 09-24-2007, 11:03 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenday5494
ok topic derailed. please lock. thanks.
Locked at thread starters request.
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