Pyro competitive / pickup feedback

AfterShock · 01-04-2017, 03:43 PM

The new pyro has been out for a few months now, and according to the class graph (http://parser.ffpickup.com/v2/classes/) it's not played much since release. Is this because it's simply too weak, or hard to play, or is it more just everyone's used to playing scout/medic?

9u-9u-9u · 01-04-2017, 04:22 PM

it's banned right now in pickups. when it was changed we'd allow it once in awhile or for a week stretch but lately it's been outlawed for at least the past month.

as far as i can tell emotions are high because it's either too powerful, too irritating to play against, breaks up the game from traditional play, or more often a combination of all of the above

FDA_Approved · 01-04-2017, 06:10 PM

It mainly didn't get played because "it's pyro". Nobody really wanted to take the time to adjust to it and see how it really played out. There's not always a lot of pugs going on, and when the pyro was released a few people would complain that they just wanted to play "a normal game" since we don't play that often.

There were games where the pyro seemed to get tons of kills. How ever the pyro seems pretty easy to mow down for an HW playing his spot. That's why I don't think people really adjusted well. The games where pyro seemed to get out of hand, it seems to me like it was just a chaotic mess where front line got caught out of position too often. Honestly the pyro is so slow the HW should have no problem dealing with it on most maps.

It takes longer for the soldier to deal with, leading to more of a health loss for the soldier. But he should still be able to kill or heavily weaken the pyro.

The pyro was mechanically fun to play, and I can't really say wether it was OP or UP. (most apparently thought it was OP.) But I can't totally blame people for not wanting it in pugs. It's balance is strange.

First of all it's pretty slow, and it can't really get into FR well. And it really can't deal with an SG. This leaves the pyro as a sort of front line DM class, which isn't really a very helpful offensive role. The D resets pretty fast on most maps, and it doesn't really help the scouts and medics get in. And once the pyro does kill a frontline defender, it doesn't help him get in either. He's to slow to close the gap on an SG, and sucks at sniping it. I think what you'd normally see is just the pyro getting a bunch of front line kills and not really helping the objective much if at all. (it probably shines best when the flag in or moving towards foyar)

The jet pack is poorly balanced too. It's not too fast, but it is pretty much infinite. If you got in and got the flag untouched, you were pretty much gone with it, because your speed was much more consistent, instead of in bursts like scouts and meds.

And really the pyro is just not that fun to play against. to put it simply, most of us like to go fast, and shoot at fast guys. I really do think that's what it boils down to. The pyro comes floating in pretty slow, you either hose him down on the way in, or he gets in and deals significant damage. Most people complain about his health and time to kill as well.

FDA_Approved · 01-04-2017, 06:20 PM

Few more thoughts:

IC jumps and pogos could help bring you up to speed, but lead to you getting mowed down faster. (IC's self damage is very weak, but it takes a few to get you going)

The IC is a spam cannon, should probably reduce RoF.

90% of pyro deaths were caused by crater.

AfterShock · 01-04-2017, 08:17 PM

Great feedback, thanks. I'd be interested to hear anyone elses opinion if you could encourage others to post that'd be great.

hadez · 01-05-2017, 03:18 AM

pyro to me is a great fix and his speed adds to the game tremendously. I enjoyed playing it the ONE TIME that i got to play it on schtop and wouldn't mind playing against it in competitive pickups. Please do not reduce the speed of the pyro, it feels like it works with most maps.

On a huge side note about the graph you posted:

scout use way up
medic use way down
spy use almost invisible

There are at least 4-5 maps that used to be played often that are impossible to medic and/or spy on because of speed and the removal of the ability to use your conc with a jumppad. Jumppad needs to go back to old version or figure out a way to make it more useful. A ton of great maps were made with the old jumppad distance in consideration and in my eyes are now "broken".

01-04-2017, 03:43 PM	#1
AfterShock Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 45 Times	Pyro competitive / pickup feedback The new pyro has been out for a few months now, and according to the class graph (http://parser.ffpickup.com/v2/classes/) it's not played much since release. Is this because it's simply too weak, or hard to play, or is it more just everyone's used to playing scout/medic?
	1 members found this post helpful.

01-04-2017, 04:22 PM	#2
9u-9u-9u Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2008 Class/Position: Demoman Gametype: pipe spawn Posts Rated Helpful 126 Times	it's banned right now in pickups. when it was changed we'd allow it once in awhile or for a week stretch but lately it's been outlawed for at least the past month. as far as i can tell emotions are high because it's either too powerful, too irritating to play against, breaks up the game from traditional play, or more often a combination of all of the above Last edited by 9u-9u-9u; 01-04-2017 at 04:44 PM. Reason: added more words

01-04-2017, 06:10 PM	#3
FDA_Approved Beta Tester Join Date: Nov 2011 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 293 Times	It mainly didn't get played because "it's pyro". Nobody really wanted to take the time to adjust to it and see how it really played out. There's not always a lot of pugs going on, and when the pyro was released a few people would complain that they just wanted to play "a normal game" since we don't play that often. There were games where the pyro seemed to get tons of kills. How ever the pyro seems pretty easy to mow down for an HW playing his spot. That's why I don't think people really adjusted well. The games where pyro seemed to get out of hand, it seems to me like it was just a chaotic mess where front line got caught out of position too often. Honestly the pyro is so slow the HW should have no problem dealing with it on most maps. It takes longer for the soldier to deal with, leading to more of a health loss for the soldier. But he should still be able to kill or heavily weaken the pyro. The pyro was mechanically fun to play, and I can't really say wether it was OP or UP. (most apparently thought it was OP.) But I can't totally blame people for not wanting it in pugs. It's balance is strange. First of all it's pretty slow, and it can't really get into FR well. And it really can't deal with an SG. This leaves the pyro as a sort of front line DM class, which isn't really a very helpful offensive role. The D resets pretty fast on most maps, and it doesn't really help the scouts and medics get in. And once the pyro does kill a frontline defender, it doesn't help him get in either. He's to slow to close the gap on an SG, and sucks at sniping it. I think what you'd normally see is just the pyro getting a bunch of front line kills and not really helping the objective much if at all. (it probably shines best when the flag in or moving towards foyar) The jet pack is poorly balanced too. It's not too fast, but it is pretty much infinite. If you got in and got the flag untouched, you were pretty much gone with it, because your speed was much more consistent, instead of in bursts like scouts and meds. And really the pyro is just not that fun to play against. to put it simply, most of us like to go fast, and shoot at fast guys. I really do think that's what it boils down to. The pyro comes floating in pretty slow, you either hose him down on the way in, or he gets in and deals significant damage. Most people complain about his health and time to kill as well. __________________ Currently equipped: Rad Scarf of liberating happiness. Last edited by FDA_Approved; 01-04-2017 at 06:13 PM.
	4 members found this post helpful.

01-04-2017, 06:20 PM	#4
FDA_Approved Beta Tester Join Date: Nov 2011 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 293 Times	Few more thoughts: IC jumps and pogos could help bring you up to speed, but lead to you getting mowed down faster. (IC's self damage is very weak, but it takes a few to get you going) The IC is a spam cannon, should probably reduce RoF. 90% of pyro deaths were caused by crater. __________________ Currently equipped: Rad Scarf of liberating happiness.
	1 members found this post helpful.

01-04-2017, 08:17 PM	#5
AfterShock Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 45 Times	Great feedback, thanks. I'd be interested to hear anyone elses opinion if you could encourage others to post that'd be great.
	1 members found this post helpful.

01-05-2017, 03:18 AM	#6
hadez Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 20 Times	pyro to me is a great fix and his speed adds to the game tremendously. I enjoyed playing it the ONE TIME that i got to play it on schtop and wouldn't mind playing against it in competitive pickups. Please do not reduce the speed of the pyro, it feels like it works with most maps. On a huge side note about the graph you posted: scout use way up medic use way down spy use almost invisible There are at least 4-5 maps that used to be played often that are impossible to medic and/or spy on because of speed and the removal of the ability to use your conc with a jumppad. Jumppad needs to go back to old version or figure out a way to make it more useful. A ton of great maps were made with the old jumppad distance in consideration and in my eyes are now "broken".

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