The state of TFC's gameplay in pubs - Page 3

Player · 03-26-2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fail

If you design a game well it works well in pubs and competitive play without having to cater to either.

I am a pubber myself; clan-style gameplay has bored me for a few years now. On a personal level though, I honestly think designing a game around public gameplay would make it far less entertaining (I suppose I imagine it would make the game easier with a smaller learning curve, which is never fun). However, I think TFC is perfect for both clan-style and public-style gameplay.

Guy Incognito · 03-26-2007, 06:38 PM

Can't be all that hard to play, I havent played since around 2001 and I just started this past weekend as spy again and my score ends up being 71-32, 62-15, and so on. Granted that's still on the losing team but for a 6 year absence, I might as well be brand new at it.

Even if people aren't playing as a team you can still use the 2-3 people running across the bridge in 2fort as meatshields and so on.

A HWguy is only a huge threat when

A: you have no health.
B: you're running down a hall about to exit, and a HW shows up at the end.
C: if the entire enemy team consists of them.

Otherwise, theres usually cover, hell use the enemy teamates if you have to.. I mean they are slow, they have to fire up thier main weapon, and in general, someone throws a grenade near you... it's best to not sit there.

TF/TFC maps are designed with more than one way to do things, so is the gameplay for the most part.

Case in point, the Engy isn't a strong class, however he's more or less the worst thing that can happen to a HWguy when he lobs a EMP at one.

Yay?

own3r · 03-26-2007, 10:15 PM

The fact of the matter is in pubs you have this situation:

98% of the team is defence and very few people EVER play offence. There is never teamplay, so it leaves you with no choice but to go solo. Even if you do have other attackers they get mown down individually since attacks are not coordinated.

In my view it should be at least possible to get to the flag solo, not necessarily get much further though. In most TFC maps 95/100 times you can´t get to the flag solo the only way is if the other team sucks so much your teamś offence attacks as well.

I am proposing a solution:

Ratios, a certain ratio of people can be offence and certain ratio can be defence depending on the limits imposed by the mapper.

Take this example:
10 v 10 on 2fort

2fort let us suppose it only takes 6 defenders to defend the map the ratio of offensive classes to defensive classes will be

Offence : Defence
2 : 3

This gives us a limit of 4 offensive players and 6 defensive players, maybe these limits could be dynamic depending on the score.

Discuss.

Circuitous · 03-26-2007, 10:17 PM

What, uh... what shitty pubs are you playin' on, guy?

Agret · 03-26-2007, 11:55 PM

Doesn't really matter what pub we play, my friend from school still sucks :P

^ TheTopMostDog

My other friend Lil' Bondy only has a negative score cause he was doing multi-class

Player · 03-27-2007, 12:04 AM

He isn't playing on a shitty pub server (Jolt public servers), he just can't cope with the public lifestyle.

Seriously own3r, all the things that you are complaining about make pub servers fun. Being a lone offy, although it can be frustrating at times, is hugely entertaining and most definitely rewarding when you get the flag past 8 spammy defenders. Sniping: great fun. I used to hate the little bastards, now I don't care if one snipes me when I am concing, dming a soldier or escaping with the flag; the fact that I play sniper most of the time now is not the issue here :P

Play for fun and quit trying to force your clan-style rules on the pubbers and myself.

darksoul · 03-27-2007, 01:41 AM

own3r, please stop. its rather apparent that you lack the skills, no need to carry on digging

tu! · 03-27-2007, 02:12 AM

i have a feeling this guy is new to tfc. you really should learn to use strafe keys/bhop/conc jump/rocket jumps then you will rarely get hit by snipers.

curn · 03-27-2007, 02:34 AM

just don't play on US public servers with there bubble wrapped tfc

ppft @ jolts being shitty! at least u got the freedom to make of it what u want...

fishBurger · 03-27-2007, 02:48 AM

hey now....

i like bubble wrap?

Ihmhi · 03-27-2007, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Player

Seriously own3r, all the things that you are complaining about make pub servers fun.

Besides, you can own left and right if you team up with ONE person. Two medics or two scouts working on concert against a greater number of defenders are often very succesful.

I swear, one of your guys runs up the spiral with the flag and dies. If you are a couple meters behind him around the corner, it is as if the D on pubs thinks "oh, got the dude with the flag, ggs". Imagine their surprise when I come from behind and run out with the flag. (|:

Circuitous · 03-27-2007, 03:03 AM

Yes imagine my surprise.

Bastards.

own3r · 03-27-2007, 06:20 AM

Not one person has even thought about what I said, instead reverted to saying to saying its perfect and im not l33t enough. FFS

Ihmhi · 03-27-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by own3r

In most TFC maps 95/100 times you can´t get to the flag solo the only way is if the other team sucks so much your teamś offence attacks as well.

I have no idea where the Hell you get this stat from... a 5% success rate at even getting to the flag on most maps? So you *touch* the flag one out of every 20 deaths. Okay. For an average player like me that is really not all that bad.

When you play 5v5 matches, it is usually set up 3 D and 2 O. I have played 4v4 (a league for fun, nothing serious). On a 2 O, 2 D setup, D always gets raped. The best ratio for D to O is roughly 2 D for every 1 O; otherwise your flag will be gone faster than the Social Security trust fund.

Ihmhi · 03-27-2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by own3r

Not one person has even thought about what I said, instead reverted to saying to saying its perfect and im not l33t enough. FFS

Oh, okay. Well, before I even think about discussing your idea, please explain to me how you are going to force people to be on O and D without pissing them off enough that they never play the map again.

own3r · 03-27-2007, 06:42 AM

For a start it would be an option on all maps and is enabled and disabled depending on the server so you can choose whether you want a server with it on or not. Its intended for the casual gamer or new blood which people say we want to attract to try and make games more balanced by default. This would definitely not make the first release as the ratios of Offence to defence need to be tested. It might not force players to go offence it may simply suggest it? That might depend on the server also so this could be a flexible thing.

One possible way it could work:

Join a game
Do you want to join offence or defence?
selects the team who´s offence or defence needs most help (by player number or mean score of offence or defence depending)
Takes you to the class selection menu
choose from between
...

Another way it could work

Join a game
Which team do you want to play?
Do you want to join offence or defence?
Defence is full go on offence.
Takes you to the class selection menu
choose from between
pyro?
scout
medic

Axel Stryder · 03-27-2007, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by own3r

Not one person has even thought about what I said, instead reverted to saying to saying its perfect and im not l33t enough. FFS

Yes, it IS perfect. Innit?

Anyways, pubs have a tendency to run out of hand. Not always, but frequently, not much you or anyone can do about it. Now on the 'nerving' part, HELL NO! From what ive read, i like what theyve done to FF. Kept the good parts and threw away the other crap valve inputted the last year they were actually still updating TFC.

I'm getting nostalgic here when seeing all these familiar faces

allisvoid · 03-27-2007, 07:02 AM

that may actually be cool own3r. as long as its on or off depending on the server you play on... and they would have to be labeled something, so you would know before hand if it was set to on or off. kind of like you can go play organized FF or you can go play free for all FF...? maybe practice servers and... i can't think of the word... now that i think of it, it may be a bit too complicated from some but then again... you don't have to play it that way if you don't want to... not a bad idea... you could even take it as far as having to play a spot for a certain strat for the map... i dunno, I'm really tired.

Norris · 03-27-2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by own3r

Join a game
Which team do you want to play?
Do you want to join offence or defence?
Defence is full go on offence.
Takes you to the class selection menu
choose from between
pyro?
scout
medic

no sniper? he's the best offence class!

Ihmhi · 03-27-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by own3r

For a start it would be an option on all maps and is enabled and disabled depending on the server so you can choose whether you want a server with it on or not. Its intended for the casual gamer or new blood which people say we want to attract to try and make games more balanced by default. This would definitely not make the first release as the ratios of Offence to defence need to be tested. It might not force players to go offence it may simply suggest it? That might depend on the server also so this could be a flexible thing.

One possible way it could work:

Join a game
Do you want to join offence or defence?
selects the team who´s offence or defence needs most help (by player number or mean score of offence or defence depending)
Takes you to the class selection menu
choose from between
...

Another way it could work

Join a game
Which team do you want to play?
Do you want to join offence or defence?
Defence is full go on offence.
Takes you to the class selection menu
choose from between
pyro?
scout
medic

See, this idea, although interesting, is not practical. Every class can and does play both O and D. Besides, if you have someone on the "O" part of your team, what is to stop them from just doing what they want anyway? Then it would just serve to confuse new players when O players are sitting around in the base instead of going for the flag.

Look at Solly for instance. Sollys are great as O or D. D Medics are the bane of many a flag capper, as an infect in the enemy base means you are running against a timer in trying to get the flag out. Even D Scout is effective when employed properly (wait top spiral, see enemy running down, run ahead of them dropping caltrops as you go, crowbar to death, etc.)>

Lastly, some players employ a combo O & D strategy. One of my frequent play styles is to leave a SG and dispenser in the flag room and go on O. This allows my sentry gun to augment the defense of the flag room while I try to get the enemy flag out. In this situation, I am playing both O and D, so what part of the team would I be on?

03-27-2007, 02:48 AM	#50
fishBurger get off my lawn Join Date: Mar 2007 Class/Position: O scout / demo Gametype: killing Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	hey now.... i like bubble wrap? __________________ That means that either you are an American, or you are NOT an American. There is no hyphenated exception. -Iggy

03-26-2007, 06:38 PM	#42
Guy Incognito Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Can't be all that hard to play, I havent played since around 2001 and I just started this past weekend as spy again and my score ends up being 71-32, 62-15, and so on. Granted that's still on the losing team but for a 6 year absence, I might as well be brand new at it. Even if people aren't playing as a team you can still use the 2-3 people running across the bridge in 2fort as meatshields and so on. A HWguy is only a huge threat when A: you have no health. B: you're running down a hall about to exit, and a HW shows up at the end. C: if the entire enemy team consists of them. Otherwise, theres usually cover, hell use the enemy teamates if you have to.. I mean they are slow, they have to fire up thier main weapon, and in general, someone throws a grenade near you... it's best to not sit there. TF/TFC maps are designed with more than one way to do things, so is the gameplay for the most part. Case in point, the Engy isn't a strong class, however he's more or less the worst thing that can happen to a HWguy when he lobs a EMP at one. Yay?

03-26-2007, 10:15 PM	#43
own3r Custom mapper Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The fact of the matter is in pubs you have this situation: 98% of the team is defence and very few people EVER play offence. There is never teamplay, so it leaves you with no choice but to go solo. Even if you do have other attackers they get mown down individually since attacks are not coordinated. In my view it should be at least possible to get to the flag solo, not necessarily get much further though. In most TFC maps 95/100 times you can´t get to the flag solo the only way is if the other team sucks so much your teamś offence attacks as well. I am proposing a solution: Ratios, a certain ratio of people can be offence and certain ratio can be defence depending on the limits imposed by the mapper. Take this example: 10 v 10 on 2fort 2fort let us suppose it only takes 6 defenders to defend the map the ratio of offensive classes to defensive classes will be Offence : Defence 2 : 3 This gives us a limit of 4 offensive players and 6 defensive players, maybe these limits could be dynamic depending on the score. Discuss.

03-26-2007, 10:17 PM	#44
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	What, uh... what shitty pubs are you playin' on, guy?

03-26-2007, 11:55 PM	#45
Agret Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Doesn't really matter what pub we play, my friend from school still sucks :P ^ TheTopMostDog My other friend Lil' Bondy only has a negative score cause he was doing multi-class

03-27-2007, 12:04 AM	#46
Player D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Europe Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	He isn't playing on a shitty pub server (Jolt public servers), he just can't cope with the public lifestyle. Seriously own3r, all the things that you are complaining about make pub servers fun. Being a lone offy, although it can be frustrating at times, is hugely entertaining and most definitely rewarding when you get the flag past 8 spammy defenders. Sniping: great fun. I used to hate the little bastards, now I don't care if one snipes me when I am concing, dming a soldier or escaping with the flag; the fact that I play sniper most of the time now is not the issue here :P Play for fun and quit trying to force your clan-style rules on the pubbers and myself.

03-27-2007, 01:41 AM	#47
darksoul D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	own3r, please stop. its rather apparent that you lack the skills, no need to carry on digging

03-27-2007, 02:12 AM	#48
tu! Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i have a feeling this guy is new to tfc. you really should learn to use strafe keys/bhop/conc jump/rocket jumps then you will rarely get hit by snipers.

03-27-2007, 02:34 AM	#49
curn Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	just don't play on US public servers with there bubble wrapped tfc ppft @ jolts being shitty! at least u got the freedom to make of it what u want...

03-27-2007, 03:03 AM	#52
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Yes imagine my surprise. Bastards.

03-27-2007, 06:20 AM	#53
own3r Custom mapper Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Not one person has even thought about what I said, instead reverted to saying to saying its perfect and im not l33t enough. FFS

03-27-2007, 06:42 AM	#56
own3r Custom mapper Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	For a start it would be an option on all maps and is enabled and disabled depending on the server so you can choose whether you want a server with it on or not. Its intended for the casual gamer or new blood which people say we want to attract to try and make games more balanced by default. This would definitely not make the first release as the ratios of Offence to defence need to be tested. It might not force players to go offence it may simply suggest it? That might depend on the server also so this could be a flexible thing. One possible way it could work: Join a game Do you want to join offence or defence? selects the team who´s offence or defence needs most help (by player number or mean score of offence or defence depending) Takes you to the class selection menu choose from between ... Another way it could work Join a game Which team do you want to play? Do you want to join offence or defence? Defence is full go on offence. Takes you to the class selection menu choose from between pyro? scout medic

03-27-2007, 07:02 AM	#58
allisvoid what is tfc? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: houston tx Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	that may actually be cool own3r. as long as its on or off depending on the server you play on... and they would have to be labeled something, so you would know before hand if it was set to on or off. kind of like you can go play organized FF or you can go play free for all FF...? maybe practice servers and... i can't think of the word... now that i think of it, it may be a bit too complicated from some but then again... you don't have to play it that way if you don't want to... not a bad idea... you could even take it as far as having to play a spot for a certain strat for the map... i dunno, I'm really tired.

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