Some sort of official Windows 7 thread

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by Mooga

Also Bridget, you are a Linux fanboy. I hate Linux fanboys because they have no understanding of Linux. They all scream "LINUX! LINUX! GNU! GNU! WINDOWS IS EVIL! WINDOWS IS EVIL!" But they are also all running all different levels of software so they can smoothly network and interact with windows computers and networks.

I can proudly say that my apartment is powered by UNIX. My desktop runs Ubuntu and my TV is powered by MythTV. I switch up distros every so often. Right now I'm on Ubuntu because I feel like being lazy about system configuration. I was using Arch before that, and OpenSolaris before that. Many, many moons ago I even installed Gentoo (that was like... high school). My laptop is a Mac. I was going to get a regular PC laptop and put Linux on it, but I got this laptop as a present before I could buy a new one. I like Mac OS, but the price is just stupidly high. I also run Linux at work, and help deal with Solaris server administration tasks. Therefore, I think I can say I understand Linux.

I still do have Windows on my desktop though, but I rarely boot into it (as I'm sure some members of :e0: will grumble about...). I only boot into it if I want to play Fortress Forever. Almost all of the official Source Engine games work under Wine, but Fortress Forever has issues.

If you are a person that is big on open source software, Windows is pretty much the definition of evil. Microsoft is pretty much the only big software company I know of that has actively tried to kill open standards and software. By now, they've mostly given up on that idea and are slowly moving in the right direction by (miserably) attempting to adhere to web standards, the open specification promise, etc.

Other companies like Apple and Google have much proprietary stuff, but they also actively contribute to open source. Apple open sourced Mac OS's core stuff (Kernel, etc) as Darwin. Google of course makes all sorts of open source stuff along with their proprietary software. Microsoft? Not so much. They contribute a few things here and there, but by and large their products are closed. They're trying to emulate other companies with code-sharing sites and the like, but all of those have been reactions to a changing world that they no longer have an iron grip on. As a whole, the company doesn't do it out of any good will towards the Open Source community. They do it because they either need to, or want a piece of the pie.

This isn't to say there are open source advocates within Microsoft. I'm sure there are. However, as a company their decisions are decidedly in the closed direction. They've built an ingenious business model (obviously), but its beginning to show its weaknesses. Their grip on the software world is nowhere near as strong as it used to be. With examples like OpenDocument support in Office 2007, it's clear that Microsoft is being forced to adapt to the changing world.

Really? Driver issues are a bitch. If you plan on using a wireless network card, you better pray it's intel. Getting flash to work isn't quire "user friendly." Having to mess with APT isn't nesisarly "easier." While having a one-touch area for lots of software is great, installing software not on this list is PAINFUL. Not to mention DVD suport and other format issues.

I"ve never had any problem with Flash not being "user-friendly." Ubuntu's package system makes it simple. As for software not in the repositories, it depends. Most "big" products have installers like Windows. For those that require compiling from source, it's generally as easy as ./configure, make, make install. Although, most casual users of a computer probably would not find themselves compiling from source very often... if ever.

DVD support is simple. It doesn't come in the base distribution because of legality issues. < 5 minutes of Google searching will tell you to install libdvdcss2 from the Medibuntu repository. And their site (and many sites that have their own repositories) has instructions for how to do it.

Installing MPlayer and libdvdcss2 will allow you to play pretty much anything you could possibly need to play.

What's more intuitive. If anything, for basic use, Ubuntu pulled the same "start menu" that Windows has.

Arguably, most Linux distribution's centrality of software in package managers is far more intuitive than Windows' method of downloading many disparate packages from many different places and then having to update all of those separately. However, most people are very much used to that inane process. The problem with people and the intuitiveness of an OS is that they get stuck in one OS's methodology and refuse to learn anything new. Apparently, some people expect all other OSes to be clones of Windows.

Of course, there are some things in Linux that are not intuitive to the regular casual user. If you have to start modifying config files, things can become a bit crazy. However, such a thing is no worse than modifying the registry (in fact it's easier...). Distributions like Ubuntu manage to mask almost all of this for the casual user. But sometimes there are problems that need to be solved via command line. That's what help forums are for. Shrug.

Yes, that is true. However security is a funny thing. There are holes in Linux. If you think it's some bullet proof vest, think again.

Linux has holes in it if: you are messing with something you shouldn't be messing with because you don't fully understand it, you do something stupid like log in as the root user all the time. By design, UNIX based systems are far more secure than Windows will ever be unless Microsoft decides to eschew backwards compatibility and rewrite their system from the ground up (which will never happen).

Windows basically runs as the root user all the time on a default installation. This is getting better with Vista and Windows 7's UAC. However, even then it's still a "click to continue" prompt that 99% of people will click just because there's a button to click. It doesn't address the root (ha, pun) of the problem. In UNIX you have to specifically log in as the root user to do anything intense. There's no magic confirm button that just does it. You either get permission denied or an obvious warning message and a password prompt.

It lacks support in general... Gaming is the least of its problems.

Maybe back in the day it lacked support for stuff. The Linux kernel has gotten a lot better. Indeed, the professionality and functionality of open source software has exponentially increased over the past decade or so. There are certain esoteric pieces of hardware that Linux does not have good support for yet (which shouldn't matter for the general public), and some regular hardware that doesn't have decent drivers (might matter in some cases). However, to say its support is "lacking" is far from the truth.

I have two computers running Linux, and neither have driver issues. When buying the parts the only thing I specifically paid attention to for Linux support was the wireless card. It works, as does the rest of the system. Linux's biggest support problem by far is gaming. Wine is amazing, and many games work on it, but many do not. The only game I play a lot right now is WoW, and that works perfectly under Wine. For the normal user who does not play hardcore 3D games, or plays hardcore 3D games that work under Wine (i.e. World of Warcraft), Linux works perfectly fine as a desktop OS.

Well, that was a fun post. I just got all caught up in the moment. LINUX! LINUX! GNU! GNU! WINDOWS IS EVIIIIIL!

[Iggy]

Buck.... that is by far, the most unbiased post I've seen in a long time!! I really want to accentuate this point:

Other companies like Apple and Google have much proprietary stuff, but they also actively contribute to open source. Apple open sourced Mac OS's core stuff (Kernel, etc) as Darwin. Google of course makes all sorts of open source stuff along with their proprietary software. Microsoft? Not so much. They contribute a few things here and there, but by and large their products are closed. They're trying to emulate other companies with code-sharing sites and the like, but all of those have been reactions to a changing world that they no longer have an iron grip on. As a whole, the company doesn't do it out of any good will towards the Open Source community. They do it because they either need to, or want a piece of the pie.

I've been a computer user since the introduction of the home(personal) computer(yes, that's 1983 for those keeping track).... and finding people who will actually admit to what you said, is pretty fucking rare. I think windows/m$ fanboys are quite possibly the worst of the bunch... they actually think the company is only on top because they want to benefit mankind.

[Circuitous]

Been running 7 for a week. Love it. Didn't use Vista.

kthxbye

[stray kitten]

I think all of us linux/open source fans about shit when MS submitted some code for the linux kernel recently.

For those who feel dirty running an OS that dominates the world because at a critical time it was hands down the best thing around, you can actively support open source without running linux and only give MS the money for the core OS. In reality if you think about it the cost of software I have on a windows box is way more than the OS cost. Except for commercial level gaming you can choose open source alternatives. And free doesn't always mean open source.

[Demasu]

Welp, can't update my version of win7 (build 2100), so I get to do a clean install. Yay. I do like Win 7 though.

[Mikael_hs]

lots of haxxy progs that wont work (yet), kinda annoying. But it looks very nice indeed

Much is improved, some stuff is more messy imo.

[Mooga]

What programs are giving you issues?

[Paft]

Every single thing I use is working fine for me.

[Mikael_hs]

well for one gpu scaling is fucked up with ati drivers of the hd4800 series (possibly the rest too). Secondly I had to try out a zillion oc progs before founding one that actually worked in win7

I cant get fraps to work, neither 3dmark06. Want more? :P

Then again, you get what you pay for... That is, NOTHING

[Paft]

I just download Fraps demo to see. Runs fine..

[KubeDawg]

I honestly don't care about monopolies or if open source is better. I just want something that works for everything I do. And if linux struggles to do that, then I won't use it. Not saying Windows is perfect, but it's able to handle most things I throw at it, and as such, I will likely buy Windows 7 a couple years down the line.

Plus, I pirate most of my software, so it's free anyway. I'd pay $250 for Adobe CS, but $800? Hell no.

[Etzell]

Then send Adobe a check for $250.

[Iggy]

I actually have to agree with that. Make sure it's anonymous, and mailed from a mail USPS hub... of course, you'll have to buy a money order, and that should be done in a town away from where you live(to hopefully prevent them from tracking you down).... But if you're willing to pay $xxx for it, then man up and do it. Put a note in there, that either you are unable to pay full retail for it, or unwilling to for whatever reason.

If nothing else, it'll confuse the fuck out of them.


Alright, I'm done with burning DVDs for backups... now I just have some e-mail to go through and forward to a backup account. Once that's done, it'll be time to install that fucker. Next time I'm on... it'll be with Windows 7. Wish me luck!

[Mikael_hs]

alright, I'm done with burning DVDs for backups... now I just have some e-mail to go through and forward to a backup account. Once that's done, it'll be time to install that fucker. Next time I'm on... it'll be with Windows 7. Wish me luck!

YOULL BE DEAD BY NIGHTFALL

Anyhow Ive noticed sometimes an odler version of whatever program will work instead of the latest. In order to oc my ati hd4870, I had to dl the gpu tool for ati hd5870 :S
Fraps also works now, again an older version...

[Iggy]

Thank you Nostrodamus.

Windows 7 is installed, and working fine. It's pretty much doubled the speed my computer is working at, between the extra memory it's recognizing, and the 64 bit architecture. This fucker is flying. I'm still installing software on it, but the one thing that really threw me off, was that it didn't come with an e-mail program installed... I'm like, "WTF!? Who doesn't use e-mail these days?!"

Oh well.... Ihmhi helped me out there.... so I'm using Mozilla's Thunderbird now.

[Paft]

Are you someone from Mac talking shit, Mikeal_hs?

After reading your statment about stuff not working including Fraps, I downloaded the demo just for shits and it works...

[Circuitous]

Iggy, the lack of an e-mail program is due to Microsoft deciding to bundle up a bunch of "Essential" programs as a separate pack available for free download.

Essential, yet not included. I don't know, man, that's weird.

http://download.live.com/

[Mooga]

Yup. I think I installed the video editor just in case. I'm sure they have some reason for splitting it out... I don't remember what it is. I know most of those programs are considered NOT to be heavily used by the average user...

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Iggy, the lack of an e-mail program is due to Microsoft deciding to bundle up a bunch of "Essential" programs as a separate pack available for free download.

Essential, yet not included. I don't know, man, that's weird.

http://download.live.com/

Possibly something to do with monopoly lawsuits?

Edit: Which would strike me a bit odd, at least. This isn't like the IE thing many moons ago...

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by Agent Buckshot Moose

Possibly something to do with monopoly lawsuits?

Edit: Which would strike me a bit odd, at least. This isn't like the IE thing many moons ago...

Oh yeah... no, I think that was it, the antitrust thing.