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Old 06-22-2009, 08:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
That's the spirit!

To be honest, I'd say start a fresh league with zero rules and try to build it from the ground up. The current "competitive" community either fakes interest in league play or has no real interest to begin with. Somehow, FF leagues need to begin again as if there were no leagues before them, and attract (if possible) a new set of people.

Maybe even try a variety league with many different maps and gametypes (AvD, CTF, hunted, waterpolo, etc, etc).


That actually would kill any sort of variety in strats. With the requirements for only 1 of each class, it would basically always be: Offense - scout, med, spy, demo Defense - soli, engi, demo, hw.
As opposed to what it is now in pickups? 4 meds, or 3 meds 1 scout, or 2 meds 2 scouts, or 1 med 3 scouts, or 4 scouts?

It wouldn't really effect D too much, cause if the strat isn't 2 solly engy demo, it's 1 solly, 1 HW, 1 Engy , 1 demo. Or now that ff_baked is out, 2 solly, 1 HW, 1 Engy ( love this map cause it doesn't rely on a demo).

I play pickups less and less, one of the reasons is cause it's pretty much the same damn thing every time, same maps, same people, same strats, and it's taboo to even consider a different strat. One of the reasons D can't do something different is cause well... there's only usually 1 D strat that works when the enemy has 4 medics running O against you.

Force O to change their classes, and it'll let D try different stuff, like pyro, hell maybe even sniper, you know... something different atleast
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:11 PM   #22
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If you implemented a draft or whatever, the requirement for participation in the draft is a specialty class...that way the clan that drafts you is drafting you as a (insert class here). Now, you wouldn't have to exclusively play as that class...but that's the class the team that selected you would be using you for...so sort of a highlander draft where each team will draft players based on their needs, not necessarily skill level. Also creates a level playing field of sorts. So if clan A needs an engineer, and there are 4 engineers available, he can draft an engineer to satisfy the teams needs and in the next round select the next class of greatest need.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:10 PM   #23
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Dont know if its because I am not known well in the community or what but ::UMC:: is up and running with open team signups and clans are also welcome. Just form a team and play jeeezzz.

Mulch Ladder
2v2 Sniper Ladder
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4v4 OPEN FF Tourney


And I can add whatever LADDER OR TOURNEY you ff'ers wanna see in no time.

Admin spots open btw if anyone is interested for input of ideas and maintenance, if not ok but ::UMC:: will still be running with ya or with out ya.

Hit us up!! HTTP://WWW.ULTIMATEMULCHERS.COM/
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:59 PM   #24
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...
um not sure what that has to do with UGC, but I love seeing more leagues popping up. Put up a nice post with all the links people need and stuffs and I'll find a nice place to sticky it for you.


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I'd love to see the ugc league turn into a 4v4 OvD, with a touch of highlander in it. Forcing people to play 4 different classes on O, and 4 different classes on D would not only offer a wider variety of strats, it would force a wider variety of strats.
Not sure how I missed that part, but i'm not sure that would work. Still is an idea tho and that's all I'm really asking for here. Maybe once this goes for a week or so I can take some of the ideas and throw them back at the community for votes and stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek
To be honest, I'd say start a fresh league with zero rules and try to build it from the ground up. The current "competitive" community either fakes interest in league play or has no real interest to begin with. Somehow, FF leagues need to begin again as if there were no leagues before them, and attract (if possible) a new set of people.
yep...that's pretty much what I'm thinking. Start over fresh with some super basic rules to stop cheating and shit like that and let the community really decide. I mean that's ultimately what we tried with the league to start with, but I think maybe too much stuff from TFC might have been ported over and so instead of looking like a fresh new league for FF, it looked like TFC ported over which brought all the negative aspects of it too. IDK, it's not gonna be easy, but the people at UGC are pretty much 100% open so we just gotta have a decent plan before moving on.

Another thing I was thinking of is maybe just doing more small tourneys and shit instead of trying to get the league out in full force. This way a clan is only committing to like 2/3 weeks instead of 2/3 months. That might promote the competitive style but keep people interested. Add some ladders and stuff so we don't get #1 clan playing newbs all the time and just end up getting forfeits and blowouts.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
That's the spirit!

To be honest, I'd say start a fresh league with zero rules and try to build it from the ground up. The current "competitive" community either fakes interest in league play or has no real interest to begin with. Somehow, FF leagues need to begin again as if there were no leagues before them, and attract (if possible) a new set of people.

Maybe even try a variety league with many different maps and gametypes (AvD, CTF, hunted, waterpolo, etc, etc).


That actually would kill any sort of variety in strats. With the requirements for only 1 of each class, it would basically always be: Offense - scout, med, spy, demo Defense - soli, engi, demo, hw.
If you bothered to ever play the game anymore perhaps you would notice that the player base just isn't there. Go ahead and make a league but there guaranteed will be 4 active clans at a maximum. I'm not sure how anybody can even disagree. It's a fact unless you're going to mysteriously pull 50 new players out of thin air.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:32 PM   #26
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If you bothered to ever play the game anymore perhaps you would notice that the player base just isn't there. Go ahead and make a league but there guaranteed will be 4 active clans at a maximum. I'm not sure how anybody can even disagree. It's a fact unless you're going to mysteriously pull 50 new players out of thin air.
I never denied that the league community is in bad shape, but I've seen this all before. If you were here for the 2.0 dip in league/pickup activity (you might have been?), this shouldn't be anything new.

And I've heard that thin air has some players for us.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:36 PM   #27
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Let's hope so. I'd love to see leagues come back I just don't know if they can succeed but I really would love to see it happen.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:45 PM   #28
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It will succeed with new players trying to get into the League Scene once this mod gets bigger. (OB or 2.4) You will see
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:29 AM   #29
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In order to start a new league, you're going to have to structure it so that there can be competitive play and parity across the board. While it's fantastic there are skilled people in a community, having all the talent on a single team just isn't worth it. There has to be a balance of talent across the board. Yes, competitive gaming is comparable to professional sports. While the New England Patriots may have a ton of talent that has lead them to repeated success (much to my disappointment) they still lose. Why? Because other teams have equally talented players, if not more talented. If 1 or 2 clans completely dominate the league, why bother playing? There's no real incentive. Any given Sunday in the NFL one team can beat another...but that parity lacks in FF league play. In UGC, you knew every week the Goodfellas were going to win, so why show up? There has to be some regulation on that so it remains competitive throughout the season.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:23 AM   #30
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Blowjobs for league winners would go a long way and a reach around for the looser as a consolation prize.

Now on topic when you have to track people down for match's beg them to practice it takes the fun out. But thats not on your end. I really don't see the league scene doing better until the pub scene gets better. Out of pubs you'll get league players just like all the games before this one. But I don't know of one game that you got pubs out of leagues. I really don't think it was an issue with the league but more of a player issues.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:27 AM   #31
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what we need is a 4 thousand dollar prize for the winning team of a draft style 4v4 season long tournament. that should spark some interest
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:08 AM   #32
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Here's a really random idea.

What if there were a league that didn't have set teams. Players could sign up for the league, then on match days it could randomly choose players to form teams. Then whichever team wins all the players on that team will get a point toward the season. At the end of the season it will rank the players most points to least points.

It could also be set so no 2 player can be on the same team twice in a row. Also, if a player can't make it, the system can easily fill that spot with any player. This way everything is completely random and it might actually be fun to play (unless every game of the season you got stuck on a losing team, but that's not much different than it is now ).

If it got a big enough player base you could actually make it so no 2 player will ever be teamed. Then you could also add divisions depending on your previous season rankings.

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@mentalERROR: Isn't your websites theme the same thing concs-r-us used? Just a heads up if that CMS hasn't been updated in a while it might have a ton of security holes. I know CRU got hacked quite a bit there at the end of its rein.

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Old 06-23-2009, 04:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlstriker View Post
Here's a really random idea.

What if there were a league that didn't have set teams. Players could sign up for the league, then on match days it could randomly choose players to form teams. Then whichever team wins all the players on that team will get a point toward the season. At the end of the season it will rank the players most points to least points.

It could also be set so no 2 player can be on the same team twice in a row. Also, if a player can't make it, the system can easily fill that spot with any player. This way everything is completely random and it might actually be fun to play (unless every game of the season you got stuck on a losing team, but that's not much different than it is now ).

If it got a big enough player base you could actually make it so no 2 player will ever be teamed. Then you could also add divisions depending on your previous season rankings.

EDIT:
@mentalERROR: Isn't your websites theme the same thing concs-r-us used? Just a heads up if that CMS hasn't been updated in a while it might have a ton of security holes. I know CRU got hacked quite a bit there at the end of its rein.
Gonna have the problem with people saying, oh i don't want to team with so and so, or if it's a click that so and so could be boycotted. Killing that persons fun, but then again, rules could be set in place for that not to happen. Which I know will happen.

But as of right now, that seems like the best and solid choice to go with, and what could happen is people becoming friends and saying, "Hey lets make a real clan." or a guild.

What i think would happen it even more is instead of having say UGC, TFL, Etc run it, have this site run it. This way it's directly linked to the game.

Also about PHPNuke, it's always had huge secruity holes, and easy to hack. I'm currently in the process of writing my own CMS for mental, all actionscript/flash.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Satan View Post

Another thing I was thinking of is maybe just doing more small tourneys and shit instead of trying to get the league out in full force. This way a clan is only committing to like 2/3 weeks instead of 2/3 months. That might promote the competitive style but keep people interested. Add some ladders and stuff so we don't get #1 clan playing newbs all the time and just end up getting forfeits and blowouts.
i kno im really new to this community and havent been around to see all of the league stuff.... but as a new player to league play, this style of league is appealing.

and there has to be a way to promote this game becasue it kicks the shit outa most.... no sorry all....

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Old 06-23-2009, 06:00 AM   #35
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I personally find ladders more enjoyable than leagues, because teams can rise and fall, without being devastated in the process. With as often as the player base in this game wish-washes around, the abilty to create and disband teams without ruining a set schedule would be a boon to the activity levels.

With ladders that have lower opportunity-cost to enjoyment ratio creating active interest, we're free to set tournaments with qualifiers.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:28 PM   #36
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I agree with most of what has been said here. i stopped playing ugc because 5v5 was horrible, and the skill level of all the clans was all across the board, making for lots of blowouts and forfeits. on top of that, the clan that consistently lead the standings had no sense of sportsmanship, causing other clans to lose their own sense of sportsmanship and simply forfeit playing them out of spite. it got to be a big pissing match with a bunch of annoying twats e-thugging each other.
This quote sums up most the reasons why we did not continue the league past season 3. We would love to plan a new format with many changes, and having DrSatan back is a solid step in the right direction.

A thriving league/tourney/ladder that helps to build the FF gaming community is a good goal, it requires active player support. But it may also require that some of the most active players rethink their approach to competitive gaming.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:21 PM   #37
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I sorta like the idea of having a player pool. But if that were to occur there would be no "Best team" anymore.

It'd have to be more of an "individual" thing if you did it this way. Where you tracked each specific player, for amount of caps/kills : death/fortress points..etc. And at the end of the season you'd have a ranking on specific players, could have multiple categories like "Best All Around", "Best O, Best D", most wins/losses.

You wouldn't need people to categorize themselves as "D - demo" or "O-Scout". Could just have a pool of players, and once a week you have 1 or 2 games on wednesdays (depending on the amount of players). Could be like 2x4v4, or even 1x8v8. And it wouldn't matter if your team has won or loss just depends on how well you did.

So for example say exo gets on a really crappy team this week, but as a solly he still manages to kill 50+ guys. The teams loss wouldn't totally effect his overall ranking, maybe just in the category of "wins/losses".

The idea isn't completely flawless though, I mean if you did get stuck on a crappier team, you're obviously not gonna be able to perform as well. But hopefully in the long term the law of averages would take over and everyone would balance out.

lol actually since the pickup community is essentially the league community too, this would really just be a weekly organized pickup league with stats

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Old 06-23-2009, 05:50 PM   #38
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Hammock I thought of this too, but it won't work for offence. The reason being is instead of team work to cap a flag, each person will care too much about their personal rank and hog the flag for themselves. That's why I simply said give the winning team a point.

Maybe even give each player a point for showing up/finishing the match. This idea really isn't perfect, but I still think it would be more fun than what leagues are at it's current state.

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Old 06-23-2009, 07:43 PM   #39
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lol i love you bananahammock you speak so highly of my friend exo

I am actually really really realllllly liking this idea of the player pool league thing, sounds intriguing. However it is going to take away the aspect of playing with a group of guys that you call your clan. I do however realize that its pointless to call a group of guys your clan when there are only 3 or 4 clans, so i ( very dedicated player ) would be all for trying that pool deal

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Old 06-23-2009, 08:35 PM   #40
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Hammock I thought of this too, but it won't work for offence. The reason being is instead of team work to cap a flag, each person will care too much about their personal rank and hog the flag for themselves. That's why I simply said give the winning team a point.

Maybe even give each player a point for showing up/finishing the match. This idea really isn't perfect, but I still think it would be more fun than what leagues are at it's current state.
Ya, but if it's gonna be personal there's gotta be extra stats involved, they don't nescessarily have to effect an overall rank, but showing stats like that on the site is always fun for people. Could still do what you said and award points to each person on the team for a win and use that as the true ranking system (still being an individual ranking system, since clans would be done away with), but a multitude of different stats and meaningless awards keeps us entertained more.

Hell you could have an award called "Flag whore"

Quote:
lol i love you bananahammock you speak so highly of my friend exo
I just calls it as I sees it.

On that note, we also need an award for Killu "TK King"

*Edit* I'm not sure how picking the teams and guaranteeing everyone gets to play atleast once or twice a week would work. But since the teams are randomly picked each week it also means the teams and games can be far more dynamic, so you can do a combination of CTF, AVD, even waterpolo/bball..etc and setup the team sizes on the fly.

One week it's ctf so assign 4v4 teams, next week could be AvD so make the teams 6v6 or 7v7, and (hypothetically) make a 10v10/11v11 waterpolo match

Last edited by Hammock; 06-23-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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