Scout! Where's the incentive?

[reaper18]

[be_]

Originally Posted by VentuSag3

I don't know whether to facepalm or to laugh...

That's coincedental you see, because I'm thinking the exact same thing about your post. Thanks for anouncing who you choose to ignore for all to see. Unfortunately, nobody cares.



About scouts not being as noob-friendly as other classes. I personally like that. Why is this a bad thing? When I was a noob, I could not play soldier at all; that was hard for me. And apperantly they're pretty simple at least to start off with for most players. But all I did was say "Man, I suck at solly, I'll try x class." It didn't make me want to play the game any less.


1. If you're going to get rid of concs for meds, then the medic needs to be compensated some how. Adrenalin shot is an interesting idea. Refilling it like that would not be necessary though. Make it the same as grenades, just get them from resupply. Limiting air strafe would take the fun out of something that even grenade jumping can have, so I'd say no to that part.

2. Movement skills like wall jumping or dashing to fill the void in the meantime: This could be helpful to noobs, but that's too helpful. Keep in mind this game has a steep learning curve, but that's what's great about it and what makes this different than other FPS games. We want to help new players get in, but not hand them stuff like this that would make skilled players more threatening for free. If anything, bring in a training-mode to this game, teaching all forms of jumping. That has been talked about before. Bunny-hopping is part of this game. So learn it. Don't change the rules and give a noob things he can do in the meantime. If he can't b-hop, he can run in the meantime. Not to be rude, but since the last patch, how hard is it to hold 2 keys down at the same time? Run forward, hold jump button. That's bunnhy-hop now.

3. "If you somehow survive off two or three failed concussion jumps, you become useless." If you survive much longer than that, just wait a few more seconds. What I mean is that the life-span for the most part does not seem to be very long due to their weak armor, not lack of concs. I do not belive giving him the ability to work up more super jumps if he happens to stick around longer would be very helpful, save certain occasions.

4. The ability to climb walls sounds pretty cool, but that is probably nothing that a conc-jump can't do faster. I have said before that I miss their caltrops though.


Suggestion, if anything:


+ Make the scout and medic speed difference more defined. Somehow up the scout's speed (faster overall or a temporary speed boost) or slow the medic's speed, but give him something in return, like medkit improvements.

+ Bring caltrops back.

Or... bite off TF2 and give him a more powerful weapon.

[Circuitous]

Incentive to play the Scout: fast, low-pressure class that becomes a sudden adrenaline rush when you're making real progress.

To explain point by point,

Fast: Well, duh. Concs, jump pad, big ol' base speed and a much higher bhop cap. The Scout just feels free when he's really moving.

Low-pressure: You're not expected to do much more than move the flag and have a jump pad up. Both of these things are so amazingly basic that they can be done almost without thought. You don't need to get kills, hell you don't even need to stay alive most runs. So long as you can just touch that flag once before it resets, you're doing your job - and if everyone else is doing theirs, even this isn't too difficult.

Adrenaline rush: If you grab the flag and have a clear shot out the door, nothing in this game will get your heart rate up faster. Even on turtle-fest pubs, when you make that grab and conc away, it's a genuine rush and it makes all the dying and bullshit worth it.

If I changed ANYTHING on the Scout, I'd give him an extra conc, a little more armor, or some sort of consistently useful movement ability.

[Raynian]

Scout is the only class that can consistently hit the minimum speed to do a larger trimp.

He also spawns with one more conc than medic on default.

Caltrops, please.

[Marxist]

more retarded suggestions based on pub play please

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by Marxist

more retarded suggestions based on pub play please

more arrogant league elitism please

[Pixel]

Don't think the problem is scouts, but medics

[moosh]

FF should feel balanced,fun and just plain right at every game. Stop with this pub vs league shit.

[Nezumi]

FF is supposed to work with both. The scout isn't the most useful class a lot of the time in pubs, but he's indispensable in matches. As long as a class works in at least one of the two situations, that's fine. Kinda the opposite of the sniper. Fun in pubs, rarely useful in matches.

[Bridget]

I don't see how improving upon the Scout to make him accessable to players who play at lower levels would step on the toes of the competitive community. The Scout there is used for movement. They occasionally use the nailgun to weaken sentry guns or just straight take them down. Alright, fine. No one suggested making the Scout slow. No one suggested taking away the Scout's concussion grenades. I don't think Scouts should be anti-sentry (This is a case of the Scout stepping on the Medic's role) but meh.

The idea here is to build upon the Scout so that the core becomes what he is now. Competitive players can still play him as they do now, and the items added may provide a small bonus. However, to someone new and not as skilled to play off concussion jumps, amazing strafe jumps, consistent bunnyhops, then there should be something there that still lets them experience the class even if it involves artificial movement or giving him some more items that make him a support role (similiar to the jump-pad).

This pub vs league shit is indeed old. I'll tell you right now why the competitive team isn't open to making the game accessible to lower leveled players, and I bet I'll get a lot of shit for it. The reason competitive players don't want the game accessible to lower-leveled players is because that means more of a challenge for them. The more people that can access the game, the more people can potentially better the competitive player, the less likely he is to remain on top by default.

[wakka]

Originally Posted by Bridget

The reason competitive players don't want the game accessible to lower-leveled players is because that means more of a challenge for them. The more people that can access the game, the more people can potentially better the competitive player, the less likely he is to remain on top by default.

You can raise some "ok" points sometimes Bridget but that statement is absolutely ridiculous. You clearly have no idea about the competitive community which atm is the only community in FF (zE Palace is down).

People don't play FF because there is not much to do after you try all the classes and spam some, there are no visible achievement to achieve... no bragging rights and not enough people for players to make friends with. The zE server was full every single night and now it's down people have not moved to another server, they just don't play. This is because people enjoy being part of a familiar group of people they can play and learn with and that is where FF can gather players.

In all honesty by playing one pickup or joining a public server for 30mins during the day you are doing alot more for FF than posting countless "the game is broken" threads on the forums.

[Elmo]

lol I'll agree that statement is a pretty retarded view of competitive players..

fuck man I'd love to have the challenge of 100 new competitive players in clans rivalling my own. I LOVE playing dmc vs TW matches cause they're hard and I feel I've achieved something at the end by beating their ass <3

I don't get much achievement out of beating on a newbie. Actually I gotta say about 3 times in games yesterday I heard people say "shall we let them get a cap?" not to mock but more to not make everyone run off disheartened.

medieval the other day was a prime example, the map is full of spam atm (to be fixed) and without the flag moving its just no fun... so we started pissing about but mostly so we could ALL have fun. Its only ever really fun if the games are closely matched, various fail pickups show that every single day.

We (the competitive bunch) want a challenge, we want new people in this game.

*edit* but I'm all for the point your making about scout being accessible and the role being clearly defined to new people, to ensure that people don't become disheartened because they try to play a role that the scout is not designed for.

[Nezumi]

Bridget, if you're just here to argue, that's great. It's pretty much why I hang out here when I'm not mapping or playing.

But don't get dramatic if people don't like your ideas.

[zelenjava]

I have offten found that new players, especially those who take to pickups will start off using the scout because actually its the easier class to begin with. The scout doesnt require much skill at all, i mean automatic bunnyhop etc. The scout is still the flag runner for all the clans i've played against. I've yet to see medics only on any map other than 2fort.

[Bridget]

There is no automatic bunnyhop.

[Eon Seig]

You do have to admit that bhop has been made so easy that a braindead, crack-addicted monkey could do it with his eyes closed. Its so easy it might as well be automated.

But that's another issue entirely.

[squeek.]

Because jumping was hard in TFC?

bind mwheeldown +jump is not a skill.

[zE]

Even if Bhop its easy, a experienced dude can get a lot faster from X to Y place then a newb. Landing in lower surfaces, trimps, etc. So ye bhop isn't really a skill any more, but being fast is still a skill.
And about dont wanting new dudes into the clanstyle / pickups scene, that doesnt makes any sense, i prefer to play pickups with newbs where i feel like im a decent player rather then play with a team of leetzors where i feel a nub :P

[zelenjava]

Originally Posted by Bridget

There is no automatic bunnyhop.

It's as automatic as it can get and still allow you to change direction, the only even more braindead method is painkiller style.

[zelenjava]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Because jumping was hard in TFC?

bind mwheeldown +jump is not a skill.

how come some people were better at it on tfc then?