Engineer Buildable Ideas - gogogo?

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Gwarsbane

Radar

Increases the detection range of the the owers SG.
Has 3 levels. First level 10% increase, second level 20% increase, third level 30%.
Requires 140 to 150 cells to increase each level.
Needs cells to continue running. Say 200 cells for 3 to 5 minutes. If it runs out, SG works like usual. Any friendly engi can feed it.
Can be sabbed by spy. Sab removes the 10/20/30 percent range bonus and reduces the normal range by 10%. After 20 seconds, it blows up (returning the normal range to the SG) and does enough damage to be able to take out a dispenser. Sab is not picked up by SG and there is no change to identify it as sabbed. If spy sabs an SG and radar that that SG gets the bonuses it normally would if neither were sabbed.
Has to be placed within a certain distance of the SG.
Level 1 radar can take about same damage as dispenser, level 2 can take about 10% more, level 3 can take about 25% more.


*********************************************
Auto-feeder/repairer

Connects the dispenser to the SG. Automatically feeds more ammo to the SG and automatically repairs it when its not taking damage. (can't take damage for 3 to 5 seconds before the auto repair kicks in)
Only has 1 level.
Requires 200 cells to make.
Dispenser and SG have to be within a certain range of this for it to work. Will only build if both are within range.
Can take same damage as dispenser.
If dispenser is destroyed, auto feeder starts removing ammo from sg. Same thing happens to the dispenser if SG is destroyed while hooked up.
Can be sabbed. If sabbed while hooked up to both dispenser and SG, the both of them are automatically sabbed too.
Feeds and repairs SG at a quarter to half the speed the engi can do it at. (basically takes 2 to 4 times the amount of cells and stuff)



If there are no increase to the SGs range in upcoming patches the first one would be the slightly better idea I think. If there is then the auto-feeder/repairer might be the better idea.

I've suggested something like the second one(mine was a repair "bot", with a station similar to a dispenser nearby... that would deploy when the SG was damaged)... but I honestly love the first idea you posted. I think it would add a nice dynamic to the SG.

As for the suggestion about the "MG"(MultiGun), I would like to see this implemented as well. It would require a measure of teamwork.

[Elmo]

Apparently we're not allowed to imagine what could be anymore... *&£#* you go on as if it was a definite. Forget free speech.. we cant even freely think.

[Iggy]

Quoting who you are refering to would help, Elmo.

[Bridget]

You know what you can do? Give the Sentry Gun some counter measures. Have it zap motherfucking rockets and pipes and grenades out of the sky if they get too close. Make it slow so it can't contend with spam. That's a start.

[Elmo]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Quoting who you are refering to would help, Elmo.

General annoyance at idiocy. Annoyance because I don't want to refreign from talking about fun ideas with the public, all because of a select few lowering the tone.

"I'd rather the sg was amended before such things are put in" and yes I 100% agree, who doesn't? Immediatly whining with an attitude problem only agitates people (such as myself) and completely destroys the tone of the thread from that moment on. I dunno, maybe its just me?? But the attitude and snidey remarks simply isn't needed - EVER.

I don't disagree that those it agitates should refreign from responding in the manner they have, but it always starts out with the same kind of unnessesarily toned comments from the same select few.

In a ideal forum, I'd like to think that with the consideration that the sg needs fixing first and everyone in agreement, the thread would carry on with nice ideas about what could be implemented after. Come on - use your heads and stop the idiotic behaviour.

Just think how it might have been had someone just simply said "please fix the sg before doing any work on this".. "yeah I agree".. "yeah I agree, but heres an idea anyway"

Raynian gets a gold star for his decent post - thank you.

[Elmo]

Anyway... let the ideas flow. I think we got the idea the majority want the sg fixed first before anything is actually considered for implementation.

I like gwars radar idea in general too Hadn't noticed it before now.

[squeek.]

Or -- god forbid -- the new buildable interacts with and/or helps balance the SG.

[Elmo]

NOPE! It's just too much to comprehend squeek. Consensus is, just fix sg first... Anyway I agree and would like to do as majority wants in this case.

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Or -- god forbid -- the new buildable interacts with and/or helps balance the SG.

Sounds like a solid plan for a problem that's gone practically unaddressed for 3 years.

I'm hoping the new hwguy can replace the function of the sg however, so it might be moot point now. I'm still mystified how things work with balance development however.

[Elmo]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I'm still mystified how things work with balance development however.

Not well.

[Peon]

Hi, I'm new........what's wrong with the SG? Is it too effective?.....less effective?......broken? I wish I was smarter......somebody help me

[Elmo]

General consensus is that it's not powerful enough in one way or another. Go look at a fair few threads on the matter... they're around somewhere I promice. Usually derailed threads tho... like this one!?

Back on track.. now? lol

P.S. I love your siggy!

[Bridget]

LOL? You want people to just gently suggest fixing the Sentry Gun like they have done for literally years now? Do you think these "snide" comments are coming from nowhere? Perhaps they're because you haven't done shit to address the problem and certain people are getting ticked off? That's the problem with you guys. It's always someone else. You waste time constantly trying to persuade people to stop reacting a certain way instead of just simply fixing the fucking problem that causes them to complain in the first place.

A new buildable that assists the Sentry Gun is stupid too. One of the problems with the gun now is that it's difficult to build and maintain unless you're some pickup God with an ace team keeping spam off of it. Now players will have to waste their time building some new buildable as a safety net for their Sentry, so when they drop their Sentry, this new buildable gets spammed? God, what a redundant overcomplicated mess of an idea. Just fix the gun itself and stop beating around the bush.

Thread derailment isn't my fault. I made my point, and everyone within a five mile radius had to jump on my dick because of the way I sarcastically made it. If you guys aren't bitching about my walls of text, then you're bitching about my short but smug remarks. I can't win either way with you bozos.

[Ventry(Leo Wainker)]

Originally Posted by Bridget

The sentry gun sucks.

I agree. Sentry is as week as piss.
A smidgin of extra push would go a long way to fixing this.

Played some TFC the other day as demo and a level 1 sentry is capable of pushing you back if you leave your feet (i.e jumping, bunny hoppin', etc.).

In FF any scout, medic, spy can bunny-hop straight into the teeth of a sentries fire and drop grens in the case of the latter 2.

p.s. Y'all still a Troll Bridget

[Elmo]

Bridget. You have beef with developers for balancing. I've never altered gameplay code (anything that affects balancing) and I ever don't intend to cause I don't believe I'd have the first clue how to go about balancing it. So as far as I'm concerned, you can't have beef with me. Or are you gonna just scream at our new webdeveloper for gameplay changes too?

The above post shows you don't get my point, the attitude ISN'T needed, EVERY THREAD is not the place for you to make a stand as you so feel the need to do. You've said it a thousand times already - we get it. Now stop...

[chilledsanity]

Bridget: My guess is your tone might get you banned again, no matter how correct your points are. You'd probably be more effective just pointing out the specifics of what's wrong with other people's statements.

As for adding a new buildable, as an NG, I love the idea of having SOMETHING else to build, anything. I'm actually not against something working with the sg, but since the sg has been crippled for 3 years, it does seem like lunacy to develop a completely new mechanic BEFORE trying to address the old issue.

As for ideas, I think something that could act as a destructible barrier would be good, like a small sandbag wall or pile. Maybe have it immune against gunfire, but not explosives.

[squeek.]

It still doesn't make any sense to act like we'd prioritize a new buildable over trying to balance the SG, or even that we'd somehow have to choose between those two things.

EDIT: As Bridget pointed out, a new buildable will likely require coding, modeling, animating, testing, balancing, tweaking, etc, etc, etc. So, don't expect it anytime soon. It's never a bad thing to be thinking about it though.

I personally like the idea of buildable barriers or something like that, so that the engi can interact with the geometry of the map or build forts and stuff. It sounds fun, but I think there might be some problems that would need solving (walling in the flag might be too powerful, griefing with walls [and the fix for griefing, friendly players not clipping with it, might make it overpowered?], etc).

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by squeek.

It still doesn't make any sense to act like we'd prioritize a new buildable over trying to balance the SG, or even that we'd somehow have to choose between those two things.

Well while I think the changes for 2.42 sound good, I think it has obviously come down to that, since we're getting new features before an sg fix.

Originally Posted by squeek.

I personally like the idea of buildable barriers or something like that, so that the engi can interact with the geometry of the map or build forts and stuff. It sounds fun, but I think there might be some problems that would need solving (walling in the flag might be too powerful, griefing with walls [and the fix for griefing, friendly players not clipping with it, might make it overpowered?], etc).

There's a lot of potential for unseen events with this, I agree. If the pile is too high, there's way too much potential for griefing, blocking sg's, etc. I think the easiest solution would be to make the barriers very short. That way that can't really block shots or player passages, but if arranged correctly, they could be a pain for anyone traversing through the area. If they were built in a staggered formation around key areas where scouts bunnyhop or conc, it could prevent them from leaving so quickly.

EDIT:

Another option would be to have sandbag barriers anywhere, but that can be dismantled by melee. Teammate melee could dismantle them far faster than enemy melee.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by squeek.

It still doesn't make any sense to act like we'd prioritize a new buildable over trying to balance the SG, or even that we'd somehow have to choose between those two things.

It makes a lot of sense from my perspective. You guys worked on the Sentry Gun a little bit in the beta when I was around then completely abandoned it for months on ending testing out changes and additions to classes that were never in any desperate need of a change. For example, you guys were really concerned with how you could buff the Spy up and make him more fast-paced for competitive games. Great, right? Make the Engineer's de facto best counter even more potential against him without scaling his end?

Things I would like see tested for the Sentry Gun are:

• Something to keep enemies away from the Sentry Gun. It's annoying when a pub Scout can run up to your Sentry Gun and bash it with his crowbar. Does damage scale relative to target distance? It should.
• A thresholding system: Make the Sentry Gun work like Roaches in Starcraft 2. The gun could easily shrug off single attackers, but when overwhelmed by the enemy team, it goes down pretty quickly.
• Get rid of levels. Make the Sentry Gun single level. Try to balance damage and turn speed and push so it's not a piece of shit nor is it a killing machine. The levels are just a massive redundancy in the first place; a horrible solution to the problem of delaying the build time to prevent defenses popping up nigh-instantly.
• When the Sentry Gun takes significant damage, it should just shut down momentarily to give the offensive team an opportunity to move in. The Sentry Gun could rebuild itself over time, but a percentage of any damage it takes during the reconstruction process could be subtracted from its rebuild process; If the offense keeps rushing in, they could potentially keep the gun down indefinitely.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Elmo

... the attitude ISN'T needed, EVERY THREAD is not the place for you to make a stand as you so feel the need to do. You've said it a thousand times already - we get it. Now stop...

THIS!

This thread isn't about knocking on the problems of the SG, or any other issues with the game. It's about kicking around new ideas, that may or may not ever end up in the game.

That said.... let the creativity flow, and let's come up with some neat ideas. You never know, your idea may make it into the game!

I put forth an idea in the Beta forums, so I may as well drop it here as well: I construct that houses a small "bot". It has to be within a certain range(and not buildable in Spawn areas) of other buildables to be usable. Roughly the size of a dispenser, it is linked to the buildables within it's range. If they begin taking damage, the "bot" leaves it's base, and proceeds to the buildable under attack(nearest if multiple constructs are being damaged). It carries ~150 cells, and repairs the buildable under attack until it is either destroyed, or runs out of cells. If the base is destroyed, so is the "bot". The "bot" carries no weapons or ammo.

One more thing on this topic... if you see an idea you like, give it a