02-05-2010, 12:00 AM | #41 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
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Couldn't Demomen run about stripping their team-mate's armor to grief?
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02-05-2010, 12:13 AM | #42 |
Who the fuck is this guy?
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Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007
Class/Position: O Preferred Gametype: AvD Affiliations: [AE] Asseaters Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times
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Considering AvD IS a specific game type- I suggest these be implemented via lua.
Theoretically (I'm no LUA guy), you should be able to enable friendly fire, negate all damages, and cap push to X amount. |
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02-05-2010, 03:50 AM | #43 | |
Not choking. Yet.
Lua Team
Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scotland
Class/Position: Demo/Def - Spy/Off Gametype: Anything but yet more fucking CTF Affiliations: FF.AvD [FF AvD/ID guild] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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Quote:
Armour strip is not a 'perfect' solution, I admit. However, some downside is required to something so useful. Some form of damage dealt to the 'jumper' is, I suppose, the most obvious and to some extent intuitive solution. A limitation on how far you could be sent flying... could be interesting. Perhaps combined with how much armour you have left. So, if you have 50% of your armour, but the blast was powerful enough that it would strip exactly 100%, you'd only be sent half of the distance the force of the blast would normally send you. I'm not really sure thats intuitive or even a good idea though. . Also, the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of doing it via Lua (even though I've not had chance to try that yet :/)... to have a server where one map (e.g. Dustbowl) you're armour stripping, but the next map (e.g. 2fort) you do no team damage at all... that just seems unnessecarily aukward to me. An mp_teamplay style thing would be a better solution, I think.
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02-05-2010, 03:52 AM | #44 |
Banned
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Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
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Why should people even be allowed to get shot across the map in the first place?
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02-05-2010, 04:03 AM | #45 |
Not choking. Yet.
Lua Team
Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scotland
Class/Position: Demo/Def - Spy/Off Gametype: Anything but yet more fucking CTF Affiliations: FF.AvD [FF AvD/ID guild] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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Well, they shouldn't. So, I guess we should remove concs, nades, rockets, jumppads, sniper boosting, pyro jumping etc. etc. as well, since all those can be used to acheive much the same effect.
Well, I'm serious about the jumppads, at least The issue in my opinion is not so much it's possible, it's that there's no downside to it. No risk to the reward.
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Preferable to death. But only just...
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02-05-2010, 05:26 AM | #46 |
AaaaaaaTATATATATATATATA!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Class/Position: Pyro Scout Soldier / Offense Gametype: CTF/AvD Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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Pads should not be taken out, but they should be re-worked to have limitations. Since the Jump Pads are pretty much the closest things to the teleporter we will be allowed to get, they should be made to have similar limitations.
Jump pads should require two separate pads, one you jump off of and one you land on, and cannot divert from. You can jump off of either pad, but you are always directed to the opposite pad. This prevents people air-strafing off of pads into flag rooms or doing pad+conc/frag combos to get insane distances that make the device over-powered. Also, just do what they did in TF2. Because team-assisted jumps cost virtually nothing and have exponentially high rewards, simply don't allow explosives, concs, and the sniper rifle to have any knock-back on friendlies. However, this won't stop some inventive players who are running slower classes from jumping on top of dropped enemy concs and riding them across the map. I've done it, it's awesome, and it is infinitely convenient as a Soldier. Since I'm nearly always blocking chokepoints as that class, there's more than enough concs to choose from. Last edited by Eon Seig; 02-05-2010 at 05:31 AM. |
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02-05-2010, 06:19 AM | #47 |
Banned
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Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
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Suggestions:
The jump pad can't be interacted with right now. Once it's down (which is relatively easy to make happen. Some maps allow you to set them up at the gates on avd) then the enemy is almost guaranteed increased mobility unless the defense can cover the jump pad. So, here are some suggestions further:
Here's a reworking for the jump pad to slow it down if remains as it is: The Scout can rotate the jump pad when he has it out (pressing the deploy button aims it in the Scout's direction) and place it. Once it's placed, a little arrow at the front of the jump pad moves from left to center to right and loops through this. In order to propel yourself straight forward, you must line it up flush with the intended direction. If not that, the lighted corners of the Jump Pad can slowly get brighter and more intense before settling back to a dark and dim setting. This gauges how powerful the push is, meaning you'll be spending some time trying to jump when it's at its brightest and most intense. I don't know about these ideas, though, because they seem more about luck and distraction than anything intuitive and entertaining. I'll throw them out anyway. Last edited by Bridget; 02-05-2010 at 06:38 AM. |
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02-05-2010, 06:52 AM | #48 |
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Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
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To branch off of Bridget's idea for the jump pad...
They'd last longer while not under use, but if everyone on your team's using it, it won't last long. I'd also love for it to be an engineer buildable, to "replace" teleporters - if it was for engies, they could repair it, maybe upgrade it to give it more health/slightly more push? (Say, 600/900/1200 speed based on level) And scouts could get their caltrops back! |
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02-06-2010, 03:48 AM | #49 |
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Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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Well here's an easy question then. Even if they have more limitations, jump pads are a clear advantage to offense, which erodes balance. What does defense get to compensate?
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02-06-2010, 05:18 AM | #50 | |
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Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
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Quote:
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02-06-2010, 05:20 AM | #51 |
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Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
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If they were destroyable, and deteriorated faster with more people using them, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. On AvD maps, they'd die quickly if placed in the open. Nor would they be able to launch 30 sollies/heavies, even if it was sheltered. (Of course, if it was an engi building/repairable, then sure...but that's using a vital O slot for an engi that just stays in one place, whacking a JP. It's not as useful as a medic/soldier that's skilled, but it's ALSO better than an engi that stays back with his SG, which we see plenty of as is.)
I think it'd also be good for league play. |
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02-06-2010, 05:49 AM | #52 | |
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Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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Quote:
Last edited by chilledsanity; 02-06-2010 at 05:52 AM. |
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02-06-2010, 05:51 AM | #53 | |
AaaaaaaTATATATATATATATA!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Florida
Class/Position: Pyro Scout Soldier / Offense Gametype: CTF/AvD Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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Quote:
Since there is only an entrance to the jump pad, we just have to make the pad vulnerable to enemy attack. This is why Bridget's suggestion pretty much works. Making it possible for the defense to counter a pad would solve the majority of problems. Last edited by Eon Seig; 02-06-2010 at 05:53 AM. |
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02-06-2010, 06:00 AM | #54 |
Banned
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Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
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Well, what do you expect, Chilled? Do you expect the D to blink at the jump pad and have it blow up?
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02-06-2010, 06:31 AM | #55 |
The Crowbar Commander
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Location: Statesville, NC
Class/Position: Anything. Gametype: CTF/CP (AvD needs fixing) Posts Rated Helpful 28 Times
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02-06-2010, 06:32 AM | #56 |
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
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mp_teamplay 11
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02-06-2010, 07:35 AM | #57 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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Quote:
Quote:
Pretend O/D capability are represented in numbers. O = 1.0 D = 1.0 Now add the jump pad: O = 1.0 + 0.3 = 1.3 D = 1.0 Now weaken the jump pad: O = 1.3 - 0.15 = 1.15 D = 1.0 Do you understand the situation? And yes, the problem isn't this clearcut, but the concept is the same. If you add something to one side, add something to the other side to balance it out. Last edited by chilledsanity; 02-06-2010 at 07:36 AM. |
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02-06-2010, 08:55 AM | #58 |
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Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
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Those are counters. You could be able to damage the jump pad until it breaks, use up its charges or use it between delay to deny it to the offense, sabotage it to throw enemies in random directions, or stand on it to disable it until an offensive member managed to remove you from it. What more could be done?
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02-06-2010, 09:01 AM | #59 | |
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Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
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Quote:
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02-06-2010, 02:32 PM | #60 |
Gets tickled by FF
Fortress Forever Staff
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times
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to be fair chilledsanity does have a point and its something we've been working on with regard to various defence classes (2nd grenades +attack2 and melee)
its a DM and movement game. so there should be counters to movement which is something we don't have on defence (other than splash damage on explosions).
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Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999) Last edited by Elmo; 02-06-2010 at 02:34 PM. |
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assisted movement, avd, balance, ivd, movement |
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