Closed beta test VS Open beta test - Page 2

wdf.CrAzDWolf · 03-13-2007, 03:23 AM

Think of it like this.. If you went to a car dealership and their like here go test drive this car. but its in beta so tell us if you find anybugs.. you turn the key and the tires fall off..

what would you think of that company?

**mervaka** · 03-13-2007, 09:16 AM

LOL idd

PsYcNeT · 03-13-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodorusRex

I'm mixed on the idea. As a mod team that has released so much media, has a dedicated following and with such a huge 800 pound gorilla in the room (TF2) I thought they would have released an Open Beta. Within a few months, a lot can happen, but I thought they would take a chance at some point in time. Even if it isn't done, a playable game is better than a forum about a non-playable one (at least, for the majority of players).

I doubt many share my opinion on this, but I feel more confident in a mod team if they feel confident enough in their mod to just go ahead and release it. It's going to be bugged, but hell, the release'll be bugged too. Unless it's in a terrible shape, I'm all for open beta. Soon.

Or maybe they just dont have the resource to deal with 300 idiots coming on the forums every day, reporting the same problems ad nauseum?

Torn · 03-13-2007, 09:36 AM

someone find them a really good programmer, i think they need it!

Lost · 03-13-2007, 12:15 PM

Yes, we need a really good programmer.

TheodorusRex · 03-13-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Or maybe they just dont have the resource to deal with 300 idiots coming on the forums every day, reporting the same problems ad nauseum?

I don't doubt it. But whether they release today or release next month they're going to have issues. But, if they live up to the hype the game should be so much fun that they'll expand their dedicated playerbase, a playerbase that'll look over these bugs and see how great the mod is. People coming to the forums and reporting bugs should be the least of their concern, just put a 'bug reporting' forum section and make it to where they *have* to place a short bug description in the title.

Ginger Lord · 03-13-2007, 12:39 PM

Closed Beta's are much better than Open ones, at least for the initial phase.

When we did the original DoD:S testing (before Valve remade the game into what it is now) it was closed beta testing with about 100 people. It worked very well, had a private forum set up and would on average get 10-30 bug reports a day and weekly/daily builds to fix/change stuff.

Having an open beta at that point was useless as you'd have had 500 people saying the same thing over and over.

DEATHSTRIKER6666 · 03-13-2007, 12:58 PM

I AM YOUR FATHER

AfterShock · 03-13-2007, 02:59 PM

How much reading/learning would be involved for a very good C++ programmer with no CG effects / SDK experience?

TheodorusRex · 03-13-2007, 10:49 PM

Well, they (the devs) have been in development for jeez. Ages. Probably shorter than what it feels like, and they might not be ready for open beta (I haven't played it, so I'm not sure how buggy it is). But, mods like Pirates, Vikings and Knights released with just one class per team (out of what, 5?) FF seems so much more complete than that by what I've seen.

Open Beta will put the game through it's paces, you'll get a lot of dumb bug reports but you'll also see how people feel about the game on a large scale. I think that benefits a mod quite a bit, where player-to-dev interaction is much more important than on a big game.

trepid_jon · 03-13-2007, 11:44 PM

One thing people need to remember is that Fortress Forever is...Team Fortress. You know, Team Fortress...the game that has been played countless times in many different forms. It would have been really foolish of us to release an incomplete version of TF when people can already play finished versions of TF. Seriously, nobody would have wasted their time playing FF in its earlier, more incomplete stage. The few that would have...yeah, they would have been douche bags. That's right, fuck those douches that would have played FF in its early days. Wait, what?

FF just isn't done yet. It's really close, though. During a playtest a few weeks ago, I brought up how it sorta feels like we're just hoarding FF like some selfish assholes, because we were having so much fun playing shutdown2...by ourselves...in private. So yeah, I think it's close.

But the deal is, there are certain things that must be finished before we release. Like Jiggles mentioned, FF's lua scripting is one of those aspects. It's pretty much ready right now, but we need to make sure its core functionality is completely finished before we release so we don't risk breaking everyone's custom lua scripts later on. After that, adding new lua functionality shouldn't break anything...new, awesome lua functionality...oh yes, FF will become amazingly customizable. I have spoken.

18 days?

Skanky Butterpuss · 03-13-2007, 11:56 PM

*panties drop*

Dospac · 03-14-2007, 12:06 AM

Yeah.. It's gettin closer for sure. The same problem we've always had continues to rear its head though. There are members of the dev team that the game is simply waiting on, no other way around it. When they can't spend the time needed to complete the release task list, we have to find other people who can, or wait. We're doing both right now, and we have been all along, basically.

This is why we can say with reasonable assuredness that the end of 2006 wasn't an impossible time frame for release, but also be 3+ months past that, still with no release. If we got 8 hour days for a week or two from a handful of key people on the team, I don't think it's far fetched to say that we'd only be a week or two away from where we want to be for the first release.

Unfortunately this type of commitment simply does not exist for us, for this project, or projects like this in general. So we've made a good effort to prioritize and cut what isn't required for the first release, and continued to look for suitable people to do the work needed.

Even with marginal time commitments that come with this type of undertaking, the project is moving forward and the first release is in sight. The lack of updates is mostly due to a general attitude amongst the team that we want to get the game out and stop posting pictures or talking about it. This may or may not be the right path to be on, and it definitely isn't popular with FF fans on the forum here.

This is just feedback to those of you asking to play or see more of the game and to provide an alternate view to the one stating that FF is vaporware or it will never be released.

I think we're at a point now where dev journaling the release task list and progress being made might be interesting for the community to see. I'll see what I can do for ya'lls on that point.

Fail · 03-14-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AfterShock

How much reading/learning would be involved for a very good C++ programmer with no CG effects / SDK experience?

Expert programming isn't something you pick up in a month.

StrickNine · 03-14-2007, 04:37 AM

I love you guys

. Don't ever forget that, because I don't say that shit too often.

PsYcNeT · 03-14-2007, 04:45 AM

This thread makes me sooooooooooooooooo*breath*oooooooooooooooo

HAPPY!

Tyrus · 03-14-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dospac

Yeah.. It's gettin closer for sure. The same problem we've always had continues to rear its head though. There are members of the dev team that the game is simply waiting on, no other way around it. When they can't spend the time needed to complete the release task list, we have to find other people who can, or wait. We're doing both right now, and we have been all along, basically.

This is why we can say with reasonable assuredness that the end of 2006 wasn't an impossible time frame for release, but also be 3+ months past that, still with no release. If we got 8 hour days for a week or two from a handful of key people on the team, I don't think it's far fetched to say that we'd only be a week or two away from where we want to be for the first release.

Unfortunately this type of commitment simply does not exist for us, for this project, or projects like this in general. So we've made a good effort to prioritize and cut what isn't required for the first release, and continued to look for suitable people to do the work needed.

Even with marginal time commitments that come with this type of undertaking, the project is moving forward and the first release is in sight. The lack of updates is mostly due to a general attitude amongst the team that we want to get the game out and stop posting pictures or talking about it. This may or may not be the right path to be on, and it definitely isn't popular with FF fans on the forum here.

This is just feedback to those of you asking to play or see more of the game and to provide an alternate view to the one stating that FF is vaporware or it will never be released.

I think we're at a point now where dev journaling the release task list and progress being made might be interesting for the community to see. I'll see what I can do for ya'lls on that point.

Why not recruit some people to take over what the inactive dev's stopped?

GeoKill-----> · 03-14-2007, 12:05 PM

Well I'm sure right now during spring break there is going to be lots of bugs squish unless you guys are going out to parties and watching chicks showing their tits while they shake their asses.

Jayman · 03-14-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dospac

Yeah.. It's gettin closer for sure. The same problem we've always had continues to rear its head though. There are members of the dev team that the game is simply waiting on, no other way around it. When they can't spend the time needed to complete the release task list, we have to find other people who can, or wait. We're doing both right now, and we have been all along, basically.

This is why we can say with reasonable assuredness that the end of 2006 wasn't an impossible time frame for release, but also be 3+ months past that, still with no release. If we got 8 hour days for a week or two from a handful of key people on the team, I don't think it's far fetched to say that we'd only be a week or two away from where we want to be for the first release.

Unfortunately this type of commitment simply does not exist for us, for this project, or projects like this in general. So we've made a good effort to prioritize and cut what isn't required for the first release, and continued to look for suitable people to do the work needed.

Even with marginal time commitments that come with this type of undertaking, the project is moving forward and the first release is in sight. The lack of updates is mostly due to a general attitude amongst the team that we want to get the game out and stop posting pictures or talking about it. This may or may not be the right path to be on, and it definitely isn't popular with FF fans on the forum here.

This is just feedback to those of you asking to play or see more of the game and to provide an alternate view to the one stating that FF is vaporware or it will never be released.

I think we're at a point now where dev journaling the release task list and progress being made might be interesting for the community to see. I'll see what I can do for ya'lls on that point.

I know this is the wrong place but this post needs to be put on the front page of the webby as an "update" (please dont flame me)

The above post is very encouraging and put a lot of my "worries" at bay!! fair play and keep it up !!!

Back to topic, I would rather a closed beta, get a spot on release and I think in the long run it will be better for all concearned !!

Lost · 03-14-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoKill----->

Well I'm sure right now during spring break there is going to be lots of bugs squish unless you guys are going out to parties and watching chicks showing their tits while they shake their asses.

So find girls to do that and send them to their houses so they can't leave or they miss the jigglin tittehz.

03-13-2007, 09:16 AM	#22
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	LOL idd __________________ Support FF:

03-13-2007, 12:15 PM	#25
Lost Fear teh crowbar. Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oklahoma Gametype: CTF ftw, yeh Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	Yes, we need a really good programmer. __________________ Do what you want cuz a pirate is free! You are a pirate!

03-13-2007, 11:44 PM	#31
trepid_jon Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Class/Position: D Civilian Gametype: Rocket Jousting Affiliations: EAFD Posts Rated Helpful 78 Times	One thing people need to remember is that Fortress Forever is...Team Fortress. You know, Team Fortress...the game that has been played countless times in many different forms. It would have been really foolish of us to release an incomplete version of TF when people can already play finished versions of TF. Seriously, nobody would have wasted their time playing FF in its earlier, more incomplete stage. The few that would have...yeah, they would have been douche bags. That's right, fuck those douches that would have played FF in its early days. Wait, what? FF just isn't done yet. It's really close, though. During a playtest a few weeks ago, I brought up how it sorta feels like we're just hoarding FF like some selfish assholes, because we were having so much fun playing shutdown2...by ourselves...in private. So yeah, I think it's close. But the deal is, there are certain things that must be finished before we release. Like Jiggles mentioned, FF's lua scripting is one of those aspects. It's pretty much ready right now, but we need to make sure its core functionality is completely finished before we release so we don't risk breaking everyone's custom lua scripts later on. After that, adding new lua functionality shouldn't break anything...new, awesome lua functionality...oh yes, FF will become amazingly customizable. I have spoken. 18 days? __________________ Support FF: Trepid steamcommunity.com/id/trepid_jon/

03-13-2007, 03:23 AM	#21
wdf.CrAzDWolf Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Think of it like this.. If you went to a car dealership and their like here go test drive this car. but its in beta so tell us if you find anybugs.. you turn the key and the tires fall off.. what would you think of that company?

03-13-2007, 09:36 AM	#24
Torn Wootski Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	someone find them a really good programmer, i think they need it!

03-13-2007, 12:39 PM	#27
Ginger Lord Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sunny England Affiliations: Custard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Closed Beta's are much better than Open ones, at least for the initial phase. When we did the original DoD:S testing (before Valve remade the game into what it is now) it was closed beta testing with about 100 people. It worked very well, had a private forum set up and would on average get 10-30 bug reports a day and weekly/daily builds to fix/change stuff. Having an open beta at that point was useless as you'd have had 500 people saying the same thing over and over.

03-13-2007, 12:58 PM	#28
DEATHSTRIKER6666 expert Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I AM YOUR FATHER

03-13-2007, 02:59 PM	#29
AfterShock Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 45 Times	How much reading/learning would be involved for a very good C++ programmer with no CG effects / SDK experience?

03-13-2007, 10:49 PM	#30
TheodorusRex Needs to get out more. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well, they (the devs) have been in development for jeez. Ages. Probably shorter than what it feels like, and they might not be ready for open beta (I haven't played it, so I'm not sure how buggy it is). But, mods like Pirates, Vikings and Knights released with just one class per team (out of what, 5?) FF seems so much more complete than that by what I've seen. Open Beta will put the game through it's paces, you'll get a lot of dumb bug reports but you'll also see how people feel about the game on a large scale. I think that benefits a mod quite a bit, where player-to-dev interaction is much more important than on a big game.

03-13-2007, 11:56 PM	#32
Skanky Butterpuss Beware the Hammer D&A Member Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Class/Position: Sabotaging your shit. Affiliations: :}\|, mimic, /KBN/ Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	panties drop

03-14-2007, 12:06 AM	#33
Dospac Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yeah.. It's gettin closer for sure. The same problem we've always had continues to rear its head though. There are members of the dev team that the game is simply waiting on, no other way around it. When they can't spend the time needed to complete the release task list, we have to find other people who can, or wait. We're doing both right now, and we have been all along, basically. This is why we can say with reasonable assuredness that the end of 2006 wasn't an impossible time frame for release, but also be 3+ months past that, still with no release. If we got 8 hour days for a week or two from a handful of key people on the team, I don't think it's far fetched to say that we'd only be a week or two away from where we want to be for the first release. Unfortunately this type of commitment simply does not exist for us, for this project, or projects like this in general. So we've made a good effort to prioritize and cut what isn't required for the first release, and continued to look for suitable people to do the work needed. Even with marginal time commitments that come with this type of undertaking, the project is moving forward and the first release is in sight. The lack of updates is mostly due to a general attitude amongst the team that we want to get the game out and stop posting pictures or talking about it. This may or may not be the right path to be on, and it definitely isn't popular with FF fans on the forum here. This is just feedback to those of you asking to play or see more of the game and to provide an alternate view to the one stating that FF is vaporware or it will never be released. I think we're at a point now where dev journaling the release task list and progress being made might be interesting for the community to see. I'll see what I can do for ya'lls on that point.

03-14-2007, 04:37 AM	#35
StrickNine Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	I love you guys . Don't ever forget that, because I don't say that shit too often.

03-14-2007, 04:45 AM	#36
PsYcNeT Black Chancellor Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Calgary, Alberta eh? Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	This thread makes me sooooooooooooooooobreathoooooooooooooooo HAPPY!

03-14-2007, 12:05 PM	#38
GeoKill-----> Community Member Server Owner Beta Tester Forum Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hawthorne, California Class/Position: Soldier/Spy/Scout Gametype: AvD Affiliations: :e0:Eternal Order Leader Posts Rated Helpful 12 Times	Well I'm sure right now during spring break there is going to be lots of bugs squish unless you guys are going out to parties and watching chicks showing their tits while they shake their asses.

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