Impressions

[Adamido]

Hammock, I played some pickups already. I learned pretty awesome things, but that doesnt has anything to do with our discussion.
And also, bokko, it requires 2 people to get past one. And yeah, I understand you, enemy dudes must protect all the places blah blah. Getting past enemy when he resupplies is very rare, because it wastes too much time. And on maps like shutdown2, resupply is so close, so you nearly never catch enemy resuppling. And yeah, Im talking about PUB play, because league play should spring from pubs, not pub play from league.

[Player]

It DOES NOT require two people to pass one defender...

[Adamido]

IT DOES IN SCENARIOS WHICH HAS BEEN BROUGHT. One dude attack's defender while second passes behind him.

[Player]

Or you could get passed him yourself / backtrack and find another route

And this scenario you speak of, it happens quite often, so you really are never alone for a sizeable portion of the game

[Adamido]

I said, mostly its not possible. Also, its a team game, and other ways are also covered by someone.

[Player]

You speak as though all routes offer the same challenges...

All routes are different and some have more options than others.

2fort: top spiral or lift? One is easier to displace the enemy from his position whilst the other allows greater dm potential.

You, as a player, have to decide what you want to do and how you will go about it.

[Adamido]

It has nothing to do with our discussion.

[Player]

I have nothing more to say to you...

[rizzo]

[Credge]

This entire thread is ridiculous and screams inexperience.

An equally skilled pyro will never take out an equally skilled soldier for any DM purposes (ff_dm).

On the majority of maps, a soldier will always be played in place of a pyro on both O and D. The only map that a pyro is feasible is plasma, and even then it's not very good.

Originally Posted by Adamido

IT DOES IN SCENARIOS WHICH HAS BEEN BROUGHT. One dude attack's defender while second passes behind him.

If it's taking two players to get past one defender then it's of the offense is at fault. An equally skilled scout or medic can get past an equally skilled soldier, demo, or heavy with ease. That is to say, at the top level. It's really completely dependent on the offensive players skill.

Defense, almost always, consists of a line of players. I'll use SD2 as an example.

In an SD2 7v you will have:

A soldier ramp
A soldier plank

These are pretty much staple. From there you will have any combination of:

Heavy flag room ramp
Engineer flag room
Demo flag room

These comprise multiple lines. In fact, there are 3 different defenders an offensive player will have to get past. Even further, the majority of maps are designed so that a defensive player can restock with ease, either through a bag or a respawn.

If you can't get past one defensive player, then you won't be able to get past the three other defenders as well. Limiting the number of rockets a soldier has does not stop the heavy from mowing you down, the sentry from mowing you down, or a demo from blowing you up.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by Adamido

I said, mostly its not possible. Also, its a team game, and other ways are also covered by someone.

If you're incapable of using teammates to help you get past enemy D why are you so adamant about declaring this a team game?

Getting assistance from other offensive players to help you deal with a class that completely outclasses you in combat is not a bad thing. It's fucking sensible.

There doesn't need to be, and absolutely shouldn't be, a reliance on playing light classes in combat and trying to move through chokepoints you can't physically move through while heavy D blocks you. Pick a better fighting class and blast your way through, or get another light class to assist you, or something, but don't just sit here and complain.

And once that teammate helps you, suddenly you can handle the other defense, and you can employ similar strategies. Rarely is a map nothing-but-chokepoints (2fort is the exception, not the rule), and even when it is, just get people helping you.

Playing 2fort last night, we ran a Soldier, a Medic, and a Scout against two Soldiers, a Demoman, and two Engineers. When the Soldiers had us blocked at the spiral or ramp room, our Soldier either blew him out of position or the Medics and Scouts worked together to provide a distraction while the other broke through.

Once one offense was through the others could usually slip in through the freshly-opened route or use the alternative. Meet up in the basement and cross-up the sentries (Scout runs through to take fire while the Medic SNGs them, or the Soldier nails the whole room while the Med/Scout run through, whatever could be done), take the flag home.

If it couldn't be done, we all respawned and tried something different.

We're not changing Scissors just because Rock keeps dominating you. Try throwing Paper once in a while.

[greenday5494]

EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP!

I HAVE AN ANNOUCEMENT!


Testicles

THAT IS ALL!

[trepid_jon]

Haha, what's going on in this thread?

[greenday5494]

it's so off topic, i dont even know any more. first page was some dude talking about how he loves FF, and he just got it. the rest are people bitching about balance, soldiers, and pyros. i dunno how we go on it. i suggest lock.

[Agent_W]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

I thought Spy was 100% invisible when he's not moving? I've certainly seen Spys stop moving and can't see a damn thing. Could be because I'm on DX 8.1 on hardware though...

Yeah, it's more of a transparency than real invisibility. The watery texture of transparency is a lot more calm when a spy is just being still...that's the way it normally is in the game.

In other words, the spy shouldn't be completely invisible upon being stationary.

[myersjr]

Originally Posted by Hammock

I'm not posting anything, instead I'm going to direct you here:

/join #ff.pickup

Play yourself some pickup matches and observe the creativity. Obviously you're playing in a fishbowl and can only see a very limited field of view.

Don't take offense to it, infact I was the same exact way back in TFC. I thought I was half decent knew most of the tricks...etc. Until I played my first pickup and was utterly raped. These guys knew tricks about the same 2fort map I had been playing for years that I would have never imagined possible.

Without question league/pickup players are more creative, they are because they're more competitive they're out to win, they practice study and learn new ways to do things.

After my first pickup match I actually joined spectate mode and watched these elite players play for a week. The things I learned let me come back to regular pub play and practice them. Once I was capable of applying these things yes my skill had definately improved.

So I direct you here /join #ff.pickup either play some matches or just ask the admin if you can watch some for your first go around. Most of the guys are pretty cool and will give you the login info so you can watch.

Then there will be no need me for me to post anything because you'll definately come out of it more experienced.

Hammock, im just now hearing of these pickup games you speak? How do you get into them, is it invite from other players or what?? Im interested in getting into a few of those...i think it could be cool...im not very good, but i do want to learn..

[Adamido]

Originally Posted by myersjr

Hammock, im just now hearing of these pickup games you speak? How do you get into them, is it invite from other players or what?? Im interested in getting into a few of those...i think it could be cool...im not very good, but i do want to learn..

Join #ff.pickup on gamesurge, then wait until some admin starts a pickup(or ask for starting a pickup). When its started, type !add , and wait until teams get full. Then pickupbot will send you info through irc, connect to this server and play :P.

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by myersjr

Hammock, im just now hearing of these pickup games you speak? How do you get into them, is it invite from other players or what?? Im interested in getting into a few of those...i think it could be cool...im not very good, but i do want to learn..

Go to that channel I listed above and sit idle in there. An admin eventually will start a pick up. You then just type !add and wait for the pool to start up. The bot will pm the server and password after the teams are assigned.

Just join the server and wait for the game to start

[[AE] 82694]

Also myers be sure to let the guys know your playing with that you might need some coaching on style of game play. Pick ups use clan style rules and a couple other ones depending on the amount of people and map.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by 82694

Also myers be sure to let the guys know your playing with that you might need some coaching on style of game play. Pick ups use clan style rules and a couple other ones depending on the amount of people and map.

I'll be on the lookout for you myers, so come on down. See my sig for more details on pickups.