10-23-2007, 08:45 PM | #101 | |
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Stealing - of course, stealing involves one person negatively affecting another. Killing - Even worse than above, it is not just harming someone but snuffing out their life entirely Lying - Usually not tremendously harmful relatively speaking but nonetheless something that causes more than harm than it solves, again one person harming another. I can understand why they object to those, and make avoiding those actions central to their beliefs. Those things are against my moral standards as well. As for homosexual acts, the reason I don't think it deserves to labeled as sinful is because it doesn't hurt anyone. No one is negatively affected by homosexual acts. That is what I believe Qwerty was trying to say, he was looking at the reasoning behind the beliefs and not just the beliefs at face value to ask questions like "Was the there intelligent though process behind making disapproval of homosexual acts part of [insert religion]?" I think it is good to remember that people have a right to an opinion but at the same time it shouldn't stop us from examining other people's opinions and seeing whether or not they are intelligent ones. I'm sure everyone has had to deal with some asshat who says a bunch of stupid horse shit and defends themselves with the line "It's my opinion". |
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10-23-2007, 08:57 PM | #102 | |||
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Scuzzy
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10-23-2007, 09:03 PM | #103 | |
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10-23-2007, 09:15 PM | #104 | |
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Everyone is also aware that some people believe things just because they think that a God wants that. You and I both know they have the right to that, but now, using your often forgotten and neglected (not by you but by the human race as a collective group) right to free thought, do you think that is a smart thing to do? Is blind faith a sign of intelligence? Wouldn't it be smart for those people to ask themselves if those commands they are taking are coming from a God they would want to worship? Does a loving god force you to hold in contempt/hate/disapprove of( the list goes on as far as persecute depending on the God) someone for something that is benign? Does a real divine being, existing on a level greater than our consciences can fathom really disapprove of something that is so insignificant? Again using the previous examples, I can see why a moral God would not take kindly to those who murder and those who lie and anyone who asked themselves that question about the Christian commandments about killing and the one I think exists about stealing they would probably be able to see right away why a good God would want those rules to be followed. That is along the lines of what we are thinking. The only thing better than knowing something is understanding it. |
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10-23-2007, 09:24 PM | #105 |
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YMH has never seen bottom that couldn't keep digging past.
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10-23-2007, 11:01 PM | #106 |
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YMH thinks there is more room to dig once he gets to the other side of the Earth.
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10-24-2007, 01:55 AM | #107 | |||||
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10-24-2007, 02:14 AM | #108 | |
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10-24-2007, 03:27 AM | #109 |
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YMH your straw man only represents a portion (and a small one I believe) of those that claim to follow the tenets of Christianity. As there is no monolithic "Church" there is, also, no homogenenous "follower". They are of all shapes and sizes. By cleaving to this idea of a unthinking dogmatic follower you are showing your own form of bigotry. I can tell you, with all certainty, that within the groups who's membership represent the highest levels of intelligence there is no uniform view of the Supernatural. You have the same splits.
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10-24-2007, 03:32 AM | #110 |
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K. Now this argument has turned into stupidity.
Let's go over the definition of the word faith. 1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions 2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith> So, depending on which application of the word faith we are talking about, it could be good or stupid. Having firm belief in something for which there is no proof is stupid while swearing allegiance to a duty or person is not. Blind faith, though, is stupid no matter how you want to try to spell it out. When you blindly support something despite evidence, the destructive nature of your faith (all of it's implications including allegiance to someone/thing), and general douchebaggery of your belief is pretty fucking lame. You can easily see the negative impact that blind faith has had on our world, just look at extremists or people that uphold a belief to such a degree that they are willing to kill and murder innocents for it. I'm more than 100% sure someone is going to take what I said and try to make an argument for how blind faith can be good and then take what I said out of context and will, generally, look stupid. So, to prevent this I'll try to make this as clear and concise as possible. Blind faith is bad. Not because it can have a positive impact, but because having blind faith means you would continue the actions/belief you hold regardless of the outcome. Blind faith is stupid. Not because it can have a positive impact, but because having blind faith means you would continue the actions/belief you hold regardless of proof, evidence, and the outcome. Edit: Jesus christ, what does this have to do with gay wizards? Last edited by Credge; 10-24-2007 at 03:39 AM. |
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10-24-2007, 04:54 AM | #111 |
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Your opinion smells like your asshole.
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10-24-2007, 12:20 PM | #112 | ||
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10-24-2007, 12:27 PM | #113 | |
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Again, I think this goes back to this scenario: If your children are doing things that are harmful to themselves (like running into the street), even though they may not understand how it really is harmful, you still love them... you try to help them from hurting themselves as best you can, but you don't "approve" of the behavior just because they don't see the light. There can/could easily be other reasons we could not comprehend for why homosexual behavior is an abomination. I'm sure there are reasons we can outline that would make sense, there are plenty of negative outcomes to improper sexual behavior that have occurred, there are examples everywhere. Scuzzy
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"Player Quality, not Quantity, is what we strive for." - The LLama Wrangler "A clan is defined by the nature of it's enemies. - The Llama Wrangler Last edited by Scuzzy; 10-24-2007 at 12:34 PM. |
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10-24-2007, 06:00 PM | #114 |
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10-24-2007, 06:10 PM | #115 | |
when ff will out?
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10-24-2007, 06:12 PM | #116 | |
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10-24-2007, 06:18 PM | #117 |
when ff will out?
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And when they come back around to 'believing' they haven't found any reasoning have they? Essentially you just blindly accept that God is.
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10-24-2007, 06:20 PM | #118 |
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I just want to throw this out there.
To base morals on the bible in saying that it is a sin to be homosexual is not something I can respect. The bible says a lot of things and people just pick and choose it. Yes, it says though shalt not kill. We all pretty much agree on that one. It also says we should kill witches and stone children for not listening to their parents. Why don't we stone children? Is it because it's cruel, it doesn't make sence, and that it doesn't "fit the crime?" I think so. So I choose not to stone children. I also choose not to condemn people for being homosexual. You all do the same thing. You pick and choose parts of the bible that you like, and parts you don't like. So, to those who think homosexuality is immoral I ask you why? Why have you chosen that part of the bible to listen to? (I don't expect an answer as I'm pretty sure no one here thinks that way... but incase someone happens upon the thread I guess) |
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10-24-2007, 06:25 PM | #119 | |
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10-24-2007, 07:33 PM | #120 | |||
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When you step on aluminum ladders, the presumption is that the ladder was made based on standards that require it to withstand certain amount of weight. The ladder instruction will tell you, do not go over this limit, or this will happen. You've never met the ladder maker, but you trust the ladder on "blind" faith, that the ladder maker had followed the standard to support the stated weight limit, even though you have not been present to see the ladder being made. If it wasn't on "blind" faith, you'd have to meet the guy, or do some experiement on the ladder first, or actually see the ladder being made, to understand that the chance of the ladder being defective is less than a certain percentage. Then, once you use the ladder, you use that experience to base your conclusion on other aluminum made thing such as bikes or baseball bats, or perhaps other things made by the ladder maker. But for some reason, that's not called "blind" faith. But when a person has read some thing from the bible, and there's a cause-effect contract, known as promises, and decides to go and test it out, and when tested out, it turns out to do exactly what it said would do, and so on on good faith, decided to hold the contract maker on good esteem, that's called "blind" faith. Why is that? People already take many things on "blind" faith. There was a pet-food incidence that happened several months ago, where imported pet food from china ended up killing several pets in american homes. And yet, most people still consume food from their local supermarket. Is that not blind faith, to trust the supermarket to provide non-toxic food for humans, when toxic pet food were sold only several months ago? Where's the outcry from the anti-religious groups of the blind faith for supermarkets? In addition, to classify religious people to be prone to "blind" faith is double talk. In order to do that, you have to know everything related to faith AND the faith of every person who is considered to be religious. A sensible person would state something like "according to what i have experienced, from what i understand as faith, from what i understand as blind faith, and from what i understand as the general behavior of religious people, religious people tend to be guilded by blind faith." And of course this cannot be done without a strong bias from the start. How can that be? Ask this question, "Am i smarter and more knowledgeable than Thomas Eddison, the same Thomas Eddison who is reknown for his inventions and contributions in fundimental designing of the x-ray, incandescent lightbulb, etc etc?" This same Thomas Eddison had said "Its obvious that we don't know one millionth of one percent about anything." http://www.thomasedison.com/edquote.htm If an intellectual giant such as Eddison admits that, then what does it say about those who claim to know enough about religion and faith to group them all as a "blind" group of people? Sorry for the long post. |
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