Help Build My System

[o_tennovan]

Ok, the countdown to building my new system has began, I'm shooting for May 15th. I want to keep the system around $1000 (give or take $100) and it needs to be suited to my needs. The #1 use is gaming (about 50%) with the other 50% equally divided up between using photoshop, dreamweaver, listening to music, and maybe a little sound/video recording/editing/encoding etc.

Things I currently have are HDD (WD 80GB 7200 RPM), DVD burner (Lite-On semi-old), Floppy, 17" Monitor (5 yr old CRT), speakers, keyboard, and mouse. This doesn't mean I'm not willing to buy new products though (especially the HDD, I could use more).

Here's the system I put together a week ago but its definitely open for discussion as to changes that could be made:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
Mobo: ASUS A8N5X
Memory: 1GB (2x512) Corsair ValueSelect PC3200
Graphics: 256MB eVGA Geforce 7900GT 500/1500
Sound: Creative X-Fi
PSU: Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 500W
Case: In-Win Case -- I like the look of this case


Total: $1001.96

My real dilemma is whether I shouldn't go with the X2 since they aren't better for gaming and maybe use the money saved to buy the extra 1GB of memory. Is 500W PSU enough for a system not running SLI? If I get an AMD Athlon 64 3700+ and 2GB (2x1GB) of OCZ memory, the total comes to 1040.95 before a $50 MIR, $990.95 after. All suggestions welcome.

[Jiggles]

500W is fine, assuming it's a good quality power supply. The Geforce 7900GT isn't a huge power hog (relatively speaking, of course).

The way I see it, is that 2 gigs of RAM + Single Core is better now, but 1 gig + dual core will be better later, since upgrading your RAM is much easier than your processor.

I'd probably do Dual Core + 1 Gig, then buy another Gig ASAP. Unless you like BF2, then you want 2 gigs right away

Either way, I doubt Valve is going to heavily thread the Source engine any time soon.

[o_sensai]

Go with the 3700+ and more memory. You can always get the better proc later (especially after the AM2s are the mainstay and the FX/X2 for the 939 socket will be cheap cheap ;D

[o_someoldguy]

A couple of comments/options...

I'd check out these two recommended build your own systems on Sharky Extreme:

Value Gaming: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/...le.php/3590876

High End: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/...le.php/3595906

There are recommended components listed there that you may want to consider.

As to the CPU... MY opinion (and take it for what it's worth) is to spend the extra $$$ and go with an X2. Even though there are virtually no games (today) that take advantage of multi-threading, don't be surprised if you start seeing them pop-up later this year, and even more so in 2007. It's the wave of the "future", so getting it now can help somewhat future-proof your investment today. However, that being said, you can get away without the X2 and still put together a really nice rig. I tend to believe thought that getting an X2 is the best way to go today.

500W is plenty good enough. You'd likely be able to get away with 450W, but depending on how many HDD's you'll be powering, the extra juice is definitely nice.

Finally, as to memory... no matter what you decide, I'd strongly recommend getting 2GB. The improvement in application execution more than makes up for any additional $$$ you might spend elsewhere.

YMMV

*EDIT* Jiggs is correct in the get the X2 and buy more ram ASAP.

[o_tennovan]

Couple questions:

I think right now the X2 4200+ is only running $60 more than the X2 3800+. Is the 4200+ the best bang for the buck as far as X2 goes? Can I expect prices to drop even further in the next month or two?

Should I really be worrying about the difference between 2.5 and 2.0 CAS latency? Also, should I go for 2 sticks of 1Gb or 4 sticks of 512MB? There seems to be mixed emotions about this though I can't figure out why. To me, having 4 sticks of 512MB sorta limits you in upgradeability since it will use all 4 spots on the mobo.

[o_ginger lord]

Ditch the CRT, it'll be getting a bit cranky soon. Can pick up a nice 8ms 17" TFT for around £100 or a 19" for under £200.

Everything else looks fine. I'd wait a while, Intel's Conroe core is coming out soon-ish and will blow any AMD current stuff out of the water.

[Jiggles]

I'd go 2 Sticks of 1 Gig, so you can run the memory in dual channel mode. I don't think you can do that with 4 sticks of 512MB, but I could be wrong.

[o_smax]

Sup -

Not a bad choice with components my friend! I might have a few suggestions though ...

For one thing, the X2 might not be as good for gaming as a single core; but that is at stock speed . I know that the 3800+ can EASILY overclock to 2.4Ghz without ANY voltage or cooling changes (I know cause i got my friends to 2.54Ghz gravy style)...now if you wanted to go higher; it depends on your stepping/cooling. I've seen a 3800+ get all the way up to 2.7Ghz (faster than the FX-60 @ 2.6) with minor cooling changes ...anyway thats the good news. The better news is that you can buy an Opteron 165 (which is about 30 bucks more) and get even MORE OC'ing capability because the Opteron's (even the lower clocked cores) are made to compete with Xeon's. Oh not to mention the Opteron's all have 2x1m L2 cache per core as opposed to 2x512k bytes L2 cache per core that the 3800+ manchester core has.
-on a side note about the new AM2's...don't worry about them...the only major advantage they have is the DDR2 support and that technology is sucking as of right now

Aight now on to RAM. I just bought my computer about 2 months ago and bought value ram. Big mistake...I learned about the timings and clock speeds that the cheaper value ram can't obtain! -this could leave you very sad when realizing your OC is limited because your ram is too slow ...My suggestion is that if you only get 1 Gig of ram (2Gigs for BF2 like Jiggles said ) get a quality product. I had to sell my value ram and get some Gskill sticks!!!

Your P/S is completely fine for the setup you are using. Especially without the SLI...although i highly urge you to consider getting an SLI board primarily for upgrade reasons ...I have the ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe; and i love it dude.

As for everything else; it looks good man. The next thing i would do after you purchase everything is to maybe get another WD 80 Gig and go Raid 0...that would clear up some bottlenecks you may experience after you get your 3800+ kicking major arse!

Oh hey, if you have any questions about OC'ing or anything, just ask. I have my 4400+ X2 at 2.6 right now and am owning...

[o_someoldguy]

Originally Posted by Tennovan

Couple questions:

I think right now the X2 4200+ is only running $60 more than the X2 3800+. Is the 4200+ the best bang for the buck as far as X2 goes?

In a word... Yes. In everything I've read, it's the "sweet spot" right now between price and performance.

Can I expect prices to drop even further in the next month or two?

Probably, but for the most part it will depend on new CPU's making their appearance (regardless of Intel or AMD).

Should I really be worrying about the difference between 2.5 and 2.0 CAS latency?

Well... some argument there. If you're going to overclock, go 2.0. And the faster your CPU, the more the improvement in speed timings between the 2.5 and 2.0 (2.0 is "faster"). If there is little $$$ difference between the two, I'd go 2.0. Otherwise, the 1.5% to 6% (I've read as high as 11% improvement depending on who you listen to, as there are other factors involved in these numbers and the actual speed) may be for the most part unnoticeable, and indeed it may be perceived as opposed to actual.

Also, should I go for 2 sticks of 1Gb or 4 sticks of 512MB? There seems to be mixed emotions about this though I can't figure out why. To me, having 4 sticks of 512MB sorta limits you in upgradeability since it will use all 4 spots on the mobo.

'Tis mainly a matter of both expense (small price difference) and if one of the mem sticks go bad. With 1GB, you lose 1/2 your memory while you get it replaced. With 512MB, you lose 1/4. It's your call on that one.

*EDIT* One other thing on the memory as noted by smax...
If you are going to overclock, go with brand name good stuff and not the value memory.
If not, the value stuff works just fine (others will have other opinions, but reality is that if you are not pushing the value memory, you'll likely be okay with the exception that the initial failure rate will be higher).

[o_tennovan]

Well I don't overclock because I know next to nothing about it. I'd hate to go in there messing around and burn something up because i wanted to push my system. But then again, who's to say I won't do it in the future. I've read that if you're a big OCer then you're gonna wanna get something better than PC3200 mem. Is that something one should consider?

[o_someoldguy]

For overclocking, yes, although you have to be cautious in two regards:

AMD doesn't certify use above PC3200, and some mobo's won't set the timings properly for PC4000.

Here's a good site for mobo/overclocking info:

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54

[o_smax]

Originally Posted by SomeOldGuy

AMD doesn't certify use above PC3200, and some mobo's won't set the timings properly for PC4000.

this is correct; AMD mobos only support up to PC3200. All you need is quality memory with good timings and high reliability. I suggest G.skill, Patriot, OCZ (Platinum series), or Kingston (Xtreme series).

Another thing: Its REALLY hard to burn things up when overclocking. As long as you are careful (i.e. watching your temps and not pumping 1.99V into your CPU), there isn't anything to worry about. The worst case scenario would be your CPU lasting only 3 years as opposed to 4 years non OC. I would suggest OC'ing ; if not go with the 4200+.

[Decs]

Hey that system is actually pretty similar to what i got except for the fact that i would rather wank of in my own mouth before buying a creative soundcard. Talk about overhyped, overpriced shit gear.

But on a more serious note, since thats pretty much identical to my current setup i can only give you two thumbs up, but god man.. do the world a favor and look into other soundcard manifactures before going with creative. Should be able to find someone wicked around the price of the creative shit, look for brands like m-audio, presonus, esi and so on.

And i just noticed that you posted up there that you might do some sound editing, that gives me yet another reason to say stay away from creative!

[o_someoldguy]

One other thing you may want to consider regarding disk drives:

If you want the "latest and greatest", get a mobo that supports SATA II drives (3Gbps). They are a little more expensive, but there is a speed improvement when doing multimedia apps (photoshop, video editing, etc). Games are a mixed bag as to speed with these, though.

And if you go that route, make sure you get SATA II drives with NCQ (Native Command Queueing) to get the full benefit.

This is not a necessity, nor even a recommendation... just another option.

[o_tennovan]

Originally Posted by decs

Hey that system is actually pretty similar to what i got except for the fact that i would rather wank of in my own mouth before buying a creative soundcard. Talk about overhyped, overpriced shit gear.

But on a more serious note, since thats pretty much identical to my current setup i can only give you two thumbs up, but god man.. do the world a favor and look into other soundcard manifactures before going with creative. Should be able to find someone wicked around the price of the creative shit, look for brands like m-audio, presonus, esi and so on.

And i just noticed that you posted up there that you might do some sound editing, that gives me yet another reason to say stay away from creative!

Yeah, I just get on newegg and read reviews. Not really much else with a decent amount of reviews besides a couple cards by AuzenTech. M-Audio rakes in a huge 3-9 reviews and the rest range from 20%-80% customer satisfaction (which bothers me for some reason). Got any links for better sound alternatives?

EDIT: SOG, This Mobo supports SATA II I believe.

[o_someoldguy]

Yup, that one does (the SATA 3Gbps gives it away )

On the sound, is there a reason you don't want to try the onboard sound at first and save a few $$$, then get a sound card later if it doesn't meet your needs? I'd be sorely tempted to put the money for a sound card into some nice speakers...

[Decs]

Well im really happy with my ESI Waveterminal 192m w/ addon card for midi. You can find that used for a good price theese days. It has two mic preamps with phantompower, 4 in and 8 out with 2 headphone amplifiers in a breakout box.

[Jiggles]

I was happy with my Nforce4 onboard audio, until I hit BF2. I had crackling audio problems that would not go away, until I used a dedicated sound card.

[o_someoldguy]

I remember you saying that, Jiggs. What sound card did you end up getting?

[o_deadly furby]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I'd go 2 Sticks of 1 Gig, so you can run the memory in dual channel mode. I don't think you can do that with 4 sticks of 512MB, but I could be wrong.

Yes, you can run 4 stix of 512MB in Dual Channel Mode.

The A8N5X chipset supports DDR 266, 333 and 400 and overclocking options are available through BIOS voltage settings. With that in mind, if you plan on moving voltage up you would be better off with two DIMMs rather than four (less overall heat),

As far as the previously mentioned "name brand memory" is concerned (G.skill, Patriot, OCZ (Platinum series), or Kingston (Xtreme series) understand that NONE of these are actually factory original modules. Neither G.skill, Patriot or Kingston actually manufacture memory. They simply buy the components from actual manufacturers and then assemble them onto their own PCBs. Because of this, there can be WIDE variances in the end product that they end up shipping. The module you order can be totally different than the one that you read an online review about just a couple of months ago.