Destroyable maps.

o_psycho_soldier · 01-14-2005, 08:40 PM

I think certain parts of maps should be able to be destroyed to complete objects or whatnot. For example, Well in TFC, when you blow the grate it's always the same because it just removes a entity. I would like when you blow up the grate it is somewhat dynamic if possible, like blowing up random things depending on where the detpack is positioned, so not just a certain section of the grate, like the wall around it and things like that. There are many other examples I could come up with but I am sure you got the point. I don't think this should be with just detpacks either, it should be the same with grenades, rockets, pipebombs, etc.

o_qbaler · 01-14-2005, 09:35 PM

I think that would all depend on the entities the mapper decides to put in. Would be cool though

mirvin_monkey · 01-14-2005, 09:43 PM

Sounds like the geomod engine from Red Faction! Would be a bit crazy if people blew up new entrances to a base and left it un-defendable though

o_psycho_soldier · 01-14-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirvin_monkey

Sounds like the geomod engine from Red Faction! Would be a bit crazy if people blew up new entrances to a base and left it un-defendable though

I didn't say make the whole map destroyable. I meant just certain specfic areas.

o_anshinritsumai · 01-15-2005, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho_Soldier

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirvin_monkey

Sounds like the geomod engine from Red Faction! Would be a bit crazy if people blew up new entrances to a base and left it un-defendable though

I didn't say make the whole map destroyable. I meant just certain specfic areas.

But GeoMod Technology is awesome nonetheless!!

o_ekim · 01-15-2005, 11:56 AM

Just look what it did for Red Faction..

o_eradicatus · 01-15-2005, 04:07 PM

I heard TF2 is going to utilize this. So I demand this feature in FF too.

I can think of so many cool things to do with it.

o_billdoor · 01-15-2005, 04:34 PM

The BSP map format of Source makes this rather impossible. BSP brush data can't really be deformed in real-time because it requires compilation. Studiomodel props would probably be deformable but the amount of development time required to implement it would be prohibitive.

o_j++ · 01-15-2005, 08:36 PM

yeah how about being able to destroy the flag :P

joking

o_storm · 01-15-2005, 09:44 PM

I would like to see all things that can be destroyed being repairable, I dont like the well grate for instance as once it is gone it is gone. I dont think you should be able to destory stuff with lots of rockets or grens as this takes the value away from the demoman.

o_j++ · 01-15-2005, 09:53 PM

The well grate not being repairable is necessary. If it was repariable it woul dmake capturing the flag on the map even harder than it already is and it's not exactly a high scoring map.

o_storm · 01-15-2005, 10:06 PM

Its hardly low scoring but even if you decided to call it that I think it would be more a symptom of 5 def dont you?

Who knows maybe if the grate was repairable it would be a popular 4 def map

I dont know for sure I am just saying I prefer stuff you can repair

o_]l[-rare · 01-26-2005, 05:48 PM

it'd be cool to see a wholly deformable map.. imagine a 32/32 pub game on 2fort...

32 demomans
32 detpacks....
2fort no more

or... on match game the defense blows the flagroom to make the flag go deeper and deeper in a hole.. a hole so deep it needs a triple conc to get out o.o

o_sobe green · 01-27-2005, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdoor

The BSP map format of Source makes this rather impossible. BSP brush data can't really be deformed in real-time because it requires compilation. Studiomodel props would probably be deformable but the amount of development time required to implement it would be prohibitive.

What was done in the first Source demonstration at E3? I remember they walked out of a room and they showed the ground instantly "grow up" as to show how "smooth" surfaces could be. I'm not a coder or anything so I wouldn't know for sure. Is that what your talking about? If so maybe it is possible?

o_saintgreg · 01-27-2005, 03:39 AM

That is on terrains. It is entirely possible with source to deform terrains, although it doesn't seem very flexible. You can use the point entity "env_terrainmorph". But that is only terrains which have only limited use in a fortress mod. Deforming models would be cool, but ultimately useless as there are a thousand other tiny details that would put coders to better use.

You could probably set up different sets of func_wall_toggle's and have some sort of randomation entity that would pick a different set to destroy when you blow the thing up. But that would also probably be much more effort than its worth, and you would still only have create each set of gibs for the wall exploding. Plus there would still only be a set amount of different combination of gibs (like the HL2 furniture). Plus the portion of the wall that these gib sets take up is another portion of the wall that cannot block visibility.

o_eat · 01-27-2005, 03:05 PM

We have talked about having objects that are destroyable or movable but in the end it doesn't really fit with the ethos of TF. For example we had looked into having big rocks obstruct entrances and a detpack would move the object depending on where it was laid. Unfortunately objects like this could be used to obstruct other entrances afterwards.

The physics engine can be used in some circumstances but mappers should always be aware that players will always abuse too much freedom.

01-14-2005, 08:40 PM	#1
o_psycho_soldier Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Destroyable maps. I think certain parts of maps should be able to be destroyed to complete objects or whatnot. For example, Well in TFC, when you blow the grate it's always the same because it just removes a entity. I would like when you blow up the grate it is somewhat dynamic if possible, like blowing up random things depending on where the detpack is positioned, so not just a certain section of the grate, like the wall around it and things like that. There are many other examples I could come up with but I am sure you got the point. I don't think this should be with just detpacks either, it should be the same with grenades, rockets, pipebombs, etc.

01-14-2005, 09:35 PM	#2
o_qbaler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boston Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think that would all depend on the entities the mapper decides to put in. Would be cool though

01-14-2005, 09:43 PM	#3
mirvin_monkey Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cape Town, SA Posts Rated Helpful 8 Times	Sounds like the geomod engine from Red Faction! Would be a bit crazy if people blew up new entrances to a base and left it un-defendable though

01-15-2005, 11:56 AM	#6
o_ekim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bristol UK Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Just look what it did for Red Faction..

01-15-2005, 04:07 PM	#7
o_eradicatus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Norway Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I heard TF2 is going to utilize this. So I demand this feature in FF too. I can think of so many cool things to do with it.

01-15-2005, 04:34 PM	#8
o_billdoor Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The BSP map format of Source makes this rather impossible. BSP brush data can't really be deformed in real-time because it requires compilation. Studiomodel props would probably be deformable but the amount of development time required to implement it would be prohibitive.

01-15-2005, 08:36 PM	#9
o_j++ Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	yeah how about being able to destroy the flag :P joking

01-15-2005, 09:44 PM	#10
o_storm Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SCOTLAND (above England) Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I would like to see all things that can be destroyed being repairable, I dont like the well grate for instance as once it is gone it is gone. I dont think you should be able to destory stuff with lots of rockets or grens as this takes the value away from the demoman.

01-15-2005, 09:53 PM	#11
o_j++ Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The well grate not being repairable is necessary. If it was repariable it woul dmake capturing the flag on the map even harder than it already is and it's not exactly a high scoring map.

01-15-2005, 10:06 PM	#12
o_storm Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SCOTLAND (above England) Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Its hardly low scoring but even if you decided to call it that I think it would be more a symptom of 5 def dont you? Who knows maybe if the grate was repairable it would be a popular 4 def map I dont know for sure I am just saying I prefer stuff you can repair

01-26-2005, 05:48 PM	#13
o_]l[-rare Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	it'd be cool to see a wholly deformable map.. imagine a 32/32 pub game on 2fort... 32 demomans 32 detpacks.... 2fort no more or... on match game the defense blows the flagroom to make the flag go deeper and deeper in a hole.. a hole so deep it needs a triple conc to get out o.o

01-27-2005, 03:39 AM	#15
o_saintgreg Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	That is on terrains. It is entirely possible with source to deform terrains, although it doesn't seem very flexible. You can use the point entity "env_terrainmorph". But that is only terrains which have only limited use in a fortress mod. Deforming models would be cool, but ultimately useless as there are a thousand other tiny details that would put coders to better use. You could probably set up different sets of func_wall_toggle's and have some sort of randomation entity that would pick a different set to destroy when you blow the thing up. But that would also probably be much more effort than its worth, and you would still only have create each set of gibs for the wall exploding. Plus there would still only be a set amount of different combination of gibs (like the HL2 furniture). Plus the portion of the wall that these gib sets take up is another portion of the wall that cannot block visibility.

01-27-2005, 03:05 PM	#16
o_eat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	We have talked about having objects that are destroyable or movable but in the end it doesn't really fit with the ethos of TF. For example we had looked into having big rocks obstruct entrances and a detpack would move the object depending on where it was laid. Unfortunately objects like this could be used to obstruct other entrances afterwards. The physics engine can be used in some circumstances but mappers should always be aware that players will always abuse too much freedom.

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