Flagrun Suggestions

MikeQuist · 06-17-2007, 07:23 AM

So I'm pretty far along with the design work for Flagrun (sketches and layouts) and I have a good foothold for brushwork and theme so far.

The size is going to remain pretty much the same, and the theme will be middle eastern/desert in a de_dust kinda way. I've got a planned rode running through the town and I have some pretty interesting asthethic changes planned or implemented that don't alter the gameplay of the map at all.

However, I'm interested to know before I get nitty and gritty with further brushwork what the community would change about the map if they could.

Would anyone suggest the addition of an extra hallway anywhere? Or the removal of one? Stuff like that... I'm just trying to get an overall perspective about what the TFC population thought about the map and what they liked/disliked. Thanks!

Ihmhi · 06-17-2007, 07:59 AM

Hoo boy, flagrun... now THERE'S a map I have not played in a while...

Well shit... I gotta say, it would be nice to have like a sort of "flag indicator" (sort of like cap point indicator) in the spawn showing which flags are held by your team, the other team, or neutral.

And yeah... maybe somethin' cool for the neutral flags. The lockup idea in the previous one was alright but something better can be cooked up I am sure.

Pixel · 06-17-2007, 09:06 AM

http://www.hlportal.de/images/conten...ls/flagrun.jpg

**squeek.** · 06-17-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixel

http://www.hlportal.de/images/conten...ls/flagrun.jpg

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You do not have permission to access this document.

EDIT: http://www.hlportal.de/?sec=tfc&site=levels#flagrun

Nezumi · 06-17-2007, 09:48 AM

Make it not suck. Because the TFC version sucked.

I'm having a hard time putting my finger on just why that was though.

own3r · 06-17-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

Make it not suck. Because the TFC version sucked.

I'm having a hard time putting my finger on just why that was though.

The first spawn was too far from the base and the base was too far from the second cap. The whole map needs to be made smaller so the fighting is more intense and its more exciting with a lot less walking.

Beetle · 06-17-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by own3r

The first spawn was too far from the base and the base was too far from the second cap. The whole map needs to be made smaller so the fighting is more intense and its more exciting with a lot less walking.

What are you talking about?

luminous · 06-17-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beetle

What are you talking about?

seconded

sure youre not confusing it with warpath own3r?

Gator- · 06-17-2007, 04:42 PM

I dont' necessarily agree with you Nezumi. The map was great (in my opinion, of course) and I hope its basic layout shouldn't change. Keep it the same - but of course, sourceify it my friend. Post some screenshots soon! My only suggestion would be for you to make an astonishing 3D skybox for it

.

own3r · 06-17-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luminous

seconded

sure youre not confusing it with warpath own3r?

whoops yeah could be right there, I always muddle the two up maybe because they are deserty and dull i dont know.

paranoidkirb · 06-17-2007, 09:43 PM

I think it really was too far apart though. It took forever to steal flags. D=

**mervaka** · 06-17-2007, 10:40 PM

give it a more cs_arabstreets sort of feel, and maybe mix it with cazbah sort of scenery, if you know what i mean?

MikeQuist · 06-18-2007, 02:17 AM

Yeah, the shape is pretty much going to stay the same give or take a few units here or there. And yeah I was thinking Casbahish but better. I really haven't gotten any negative opinions on any part of the map, so yeah the layout and scoring system will stay the same.

Ihmhi · 06-18-2007, 04:53 AM

I agree with the majority of posts here: flagrun is way too slow to play and needs to be sped up somehow. Perhaps making the hallways slightly wider, elevators faster, something.

Nezumi · 06-21-2007, 05:38 AM

I think putting in another route to the flagroom would help.

MikeQuist · 06-21-2007, 08:59 AM

From where? And what are other's opinions?

own3r · 06-21-2007, 09:57 AM

Yea another route and generally make the map smaller in length its far far too big. You could make it smaller by simply reducing the second yard's size (that is the one in each team's base) and removing the bridge/making it smaller between FR and spawn.

Beetle · 06-21-2007, 02:57 PM

aww come on its not that big

Circuitous · 06-21-2007, 08:19 PM

I took the flagrun overview and sketched out a couple ideas. They don't make a whole buncha sense in an overview perspective, though, so I'll write them out.

The battlements should link back to the main base. This allows defense/snipers to get there more easily and eases offense going both directions.

I think if you just open up the back of it completely, or at least leave a decent-sized hall, that stretches all the way back to the back of the base, that would be perfect. Ramp it down at the end so it meets at the floor.

The hallway between the battlements and the neutral flag zone - the one at ground level - could be straightened out or made into two passages, just to allow more flow.

You could also add a third passage up at the corner (along the same wall as the neutral flag zone).

I've also opened up the flagroom on both ends and provided one balcony over the center where defense can set up SGs and shit, it'd probably be a good idea to extend it to the otherside as well via catwalks or what-have-you, but I'll leave that decision up to you.

Lastly, I added more walls - at an angle - to the midfield. They're arranged like a diamond with one vertical in the center, and plenty of open space between them. Just an idea, really.

Here's the sketch, in hopes that my explanation will make more sense of it.

You can use flagrun's existing ideas like chain fence, walls of boxes, etc. to block off areas and control flow for each possible entrance. This way you can create chokepoints and such so offense doesn't have full run of the base.

MikeQuist · 06-21-2007, 08:57 PM

That drawing is much appreciated. Although most of the stuff I'm finding a little too drastic in terms of layout for what I want essentially to be a remake. The great thing about Flagrun's gameplay is that it's the only map with it, so if the time comes that somebody wishes to create something a little closer to Circutitous's design, that option won't be one that has been overdone. However, here's a few things I might throw in to help ease some of your "But there are still problems with the map!"

But before: The map is designed around 4 flags. Not 1. It's entirely different. Don't think about it as CTF.

1. The "Stairwell" by the flagroom area is going to be vastly opened up, providing room for sg's spys to hide, anything really.
2. The hallway structure by the spawns is being widened a little, and hopefully made a little less confusing.
3. The way that the center tunnel is built in right now is such that another path can easily be added from there to the flag-building side of the yard. This can be determined after playtests... but right now if that was implemented, nobody would use the center entrance, and offense would be flying all over the place.
4. The team-open door to the flagroom building will remain team only, however, in place of a slow and problematic elevator, a stairwell will be added going up to the bridge.
5. The center bridge will probably have railings, but not the the side one.
6. A stairwell will be added to the balcony above the side tunnel entrance in the base yard. This will provide some offensive and defensive options. And I believe the more options the more exciting of a game you'll have.
7. Right now, and in the past, there has been 3 entrances to the enemy yard: 2 tunnels and 1 balcony spawn path. 2 offensive entrances to the flagroom building, 3 to the flagroom. If this is not enough, I'll add one.

Etc etc... I'm going to be more conservative with my layout as it's such a different map. Who here has really designed a map based around 4 flags such as this? We can't use CTF philosophy. So I'll take what I know works somewhat, test and it, and change from there.

06-17-2007, 07:23 AM	#1
MikeQuist Person Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Flagrun Suggestions So I'm pretty far along with the design work for Flagrun (sketches and layouts) and I have a good foothold for brushwork and theme so far. The size is going to remain pretty much the same, and the theme will be middle eastern/desert in a de_dust kinda way. I've got a planned rode running through the town and I have some pretty interesting asthethic changes planned or implemented that don't alter the gameplay of the map at all. However, I'm interested to know before I get nitty and gritty with further brushwork what the community would change about the map if they could. Would anyone suggest the addition of an extra hallway anywhere? Or the removal of one? Stuff like that... I'm just trying to get an overall perspective about what the TFC population thought about the map and what they liked/disliked. Thanks!

06-17-2007, 07:59 AM	#2
Ihmhi [AE] 0112 Ihmhi SJB Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newark, NJ, United States Class/Position: A little bit o' everythin' Gametype: Also a little bit o' everythin' Affiliations: [AE] Asseater, SJB Straight Jacket Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Hoo boy, flagrun... now THERE'S a map I have not played in a while... Well shit... I gotta say, it would be nice to have like a sort of "flag indicator" (sort of like cap point indicator) in the spawn showing which flags are held by your team, the other team, or neutral. And yeah... maybe somethin' cool for the neutral flags. The lockup idea in the previous one was alright but something better can be cooked up I am sure. __________________ Support FF: Anime: The Thread: Reloaded The one and only anime thread on these here forums. Select the pistol, and then, select your horse.

06-17-2007, 09:48 AM	#5
Nezumi Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals. Class/Position: Soldier, O Gametype: Doubble Mode Affiliations: Cassiotone Nation Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Make it not suck. Because the TFC version sucked. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on just why that was though. __________________ TG: pretty much you have no idea how much i fuckin own at this game. TG: i bested no less than three flaming tornados and broke a huge wizard.

06-17-2007, 04:42 PM	#9
Gator- FF God Join Date: May 2007 Location: TX Class/Position: Scout O, Medic O, Demo D/O, Soldier D Gametype: CTF 4v4 Affiliations: [milkwood] ( GoodFellas ) Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	I dont' necessarily agree with you Nezumi. The map was great (in my opinion, of course) and I hope its basic layout shouldn't change. Keep it the same - but of course, sourceify it my friend. Post some screenshots soon! My only suggestion would be for you to make an astonishing 3D skybox for it . __________________ FF_ROASTED_CLASSIC [RELEASED] FF_EVENFLOW_B2 [RELEASED] FF_OPPOSE_B1 [COMING SOON]

06-17-2007, 10:40 PM	#12
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	give it a more cs_arabstreets sort of feel, and maybe mix it with cazbah sort of scenery, if you know what i mean? __________________ Support FF:

06-17-2007, 09:06 AM	#3
Pixel if(0>1){printf("broked");} Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Amerika Class/Position: O Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	http://www.hlportal.de/images/conten...ls/flagrun.jpg

06-17-2007, 09:43 PM	#11
paranoidkirb Join Date: Mar 2007 Class/Position: O/D Pyro Gametype: Invade and Defend Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think it really was too far apart though. It took forever to steal flags. D=

06-18-2007, 02:17 AM	#13
MikeQuist Person Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yeah, the shape is pretty much going to stay the same give or take a few units here or there. And yeah I was thinking Casbahish but better. I really haven't gotten any negative opinions on any part of the map, so yeah the layout and scoring system will stay the same.

06-18-2007, 04:53 AM	#14
Ihmhi [AE] 0112 Ihmhi SJB Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newark, NJ, United States Class/Position: A little bit o' everythin' Gametype: Also a little bit o' everythin' Affiliations: [AE] Asseater, SJB Straight Jacket Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	I agree with the majority of posts here: flagrun is way too slow to play and needs to be sped up somehow. Perhaps making the hallways slightly wider, elevators faster, something. __________________ Support FF: Anime: The Thread: Reloaded The one and only anime thread on these here forums. Select the pistol, and then, select your horse.

06-21-2007, 05:38 AM	#15
Nezumi Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals. Class/Position: Soldier, O Gametype: Doubble Mode Affiliations: Cassiotone Nation Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	I think putting in another route to the flagroom would help. __________________ TG: pretty much you have no idea how much i fuckin own at this game. TG: i bested no less than three flaming tornados and broke a huge wizard.

06-21-2007, 08:59 AM	#16
MikeQuist Person Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	From where? And what are other's opinions?

06-21-2007, 09:57 AM	#17
own3r Custom mapper Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yea another route and generally make the map smaller in length its far far too big. You could make it smaller by simply reducing the second yard's size (that is the one in each team's base) and removing the bridge/making it smaller between FR and spawn.

06-21-2007, 02:57 PM	#18
Beetle Beta than eva' Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	aww come on its not that big

06-21-2007, 08:19 PM	#19
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	I took the flagrun overview and sketched out a couple ideas. They don't make a whole buncha sense in an overview perspective, though, so I'll write them out. The battlements should link back to the main base. This allows defense/snipers to get there more easily and eases offense going both directions. I think if you just open up the back of it completely, or at least leave a decent-sized hall, that stretches all the way back to the back of the base, that would be perfect. Ramp it down at the end so it meets at the floor. The hallway between the battlements and the neutral flag zone - the one at ground level - could be straightened out or made into two passages, just to allow more flow. You could also add a third passage up at the corner (along the same wall as the neutral flag zone). I've also opened up the flagroom on both ends and provided one balcony over the center where defense can set up SGs and shit, it'd probably be a good idea to extend it to the otherside as well via catwalks or what-have-you, but I'll leave that decision up to you. Lastly, I added more walls - at an angle - to the midfield. They're arranged like a diamond with one vertical in the center, and plenty of open space between them. Just an idea, really. Here's the sketch, in hopes that my explanation will make more sense of it. You can use flagrun's existing ideas like chain fence, walls of boxes, etc. to block off areas and control flow for each possible entrance. This way you can create chokepoints and such so offense doesn't have full run of the base. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

06-21-2007, 08:57 PM	#20
MikeQuist Person Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	That drawing is much appreciated. Although most of the stuff I'm finding a little too drastic in terms of layout for what I want essentially to be a remake. The great thing about Flagrun's gameplay is that it's the only map with it, so if the time comes that somebody wishes to create something a little closer to Circutitous's design, that option won't be one that has been overdone. However, here's a few things I might throw in to help ease some of your "But there are still problems with the map!" But before: The map is designed around 4 flags. Not 1. It's entirely different. Don't think about it as CTF. 1. The "Stairwell" by the flagroom area is going to be vastly opened up, providing room for sg's spys to hide, anything really. 2. The hallway structure by the spawns is being widened a little, and hopefully made a little less confusing. 3. The way that the center tunnel is built in right now is such that another path can easily be added from there to the flag-building side of the yard. This can be determined after playtests... but right now if that was implemented, nobody would use the center entrance, and offense would be flying all over the place. 4. The team-open door to the flagroom building will remain team only, however, in place of a slow and problematic elevator, a stairwell will be added going up to the bridge. 5. The center bridge will probably have railings, but not the the side one. 6. A stairwell will be added to the balcony above the side tunnel entrance in the base yard. This will provide some offensive and defensive options. And I believe the more options the more exciting of a game you'll have. 7. Right now, and in the past, there has been 3 entrances to the enemy yard: 2 tunnels and 1 balcony spawn path. 2 offensive entrances to the flagroom building, 3 to the flagroom. If this is not enough, I'll add one. Etc etc... I'm going to be more conservative with my layout as it's such a different map. Who here has really designed a map based around 4 flags such as this? We can't use CTF philosophy. So I'll take what I know works somewhat, test and it, and change from there.

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