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Old 09-19-2008, 05:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
If I remember correctly, SG lvl 3 health went down 10 since last patch, but it is still either slightly above or at the TFC level. Level 1 health went down 5, and level 2 stayed the same.

Once rockets don't bounce engis around when they are behind their SG's, you guys shouldn't have anything to complain abut. Until then, find some creative way to dodge them rockets.

Wedge urself between sentry and dispenser.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Happy
Wedge urself between sentry and dispenser.
I actually do this sometimes, it just sucks you can't get away from nades.
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek
Once rockets don't bounce engis around when they are behind their SG's, you guys shouldn't have anything to complain abut.
Actually I will, I'm sure you've seen me bring up how sentries lose the target they're tracking if they go behind a column for just a second. I haven't verified it yet, but you're say they've been weakened to a TFC level, except they don't have all the TFC abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek
Until then, find some creative way to dodge them rockets.
That's funny you say that, since technically the sentry is the one getting hit, so I guess it needs to learn to dodge them too. Anyway, I already found a solution and that's to just play hwguy instead. Kind of sucks having one of my favorite classes gimped, but at least there's another one to make up for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Happy
Wedge urself between sentry and dispenser.
That would be a good idea, except you'll still receive the damage from the rocket too, another difference over TFC. So yeah, you won't get blown back, you'll just die instead.
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
Once rockets don't bounce engis around when they are behind their SG's, you guys shouldn't have anything to complain abut.
you truly underestimate the power of chilledsanity...
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss
you truly underestimate the power of chilledsanity...
You are correct, sir.
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Old 09-19-2008, 09:43 PM   #26
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I dunno, I don't have any problems playing the engy and I rarely rely on my SG. In 2.0 my main weapon was my dispenser. Best engy tool on defense. Explode it at 20% and you've got a guaranteed kill. If they start shooting it, good, you've slowed them down.

In 2.1 it's insane. Build it, 4 seconds later it's 20% ammo. I'm sure I could take on both offensive players on 2fort without issue with just my dispenser if they both traveled the same path (elevator).

Really though, your team should be protecting your gun. If enemies are firing rockets at your gun, your defense is not doing its job. To be honest, I've always found this style of play to be really dull, but that's what having a strong tool like the SG brings about.

Just because the SG doesn't have the insane push that it had in 2.0 (overpowered) doesn't mean that it isn't the best thing you can have on defense. Tell your team that if they don't want the enemy capping flags to start defending your gun.
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Old 09-20-2008, 03:33 AM   #27
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Precisely.

I think to keep an sg up it should require team work, adn intelligent engineering, but also some tweaks to the way the engy interacts with his buildings.

Health from dispenser, sg absorbing splash damage, these types of things can be done and tweaked and edited to create a more interesting dynamic and balance the difficulty of sentry maintenance and removeall, rather than "make the sentry reall powerfull, AND really intelligent, AND have lots of health" which is what it has felt like to me...both hard to keep up and hard to kill...

but I suck at FF so!
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Old 09-20-2008, 05:49 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Credge
Really though, your team should be protecting your gun.
Well what can I say, I play pubs. I'm really just comparing things to TFC. In TFC, if I maintained my gun, I could defend it against one soldier. In FF I can't do that because of the splash and it's what takes out my sg's more than anything else. People (not you) often interpret this statement as me saying I want a invincible sentry gun, I'm not sure why. The sg's are still very vulnerable, they just used to require some tactics to take out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss
you truly underestimate the power of chilledsanity...
Yeah, well the upside is that I actually shut up when a class gets fixed. Plus I usually don't say anything about little annoyances, just stuff that makes me want to stop playing the class altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Happy
"make the sentry reall powerfull, AND really intelligent, AND have lots of health" which is what it has felt like to me...
Yeah, well you said earlier, you play as a SCOUT. Scouts SHOULDN'T be able to take out a sentry gun unless the engineer is incompetent. Just how I wouldn't expect to be able to take out a hwguy as one either.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:49 AM   #29
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Hum, if there's a single Soldier shooting at you, instead of ducking whacking the Gun, wait until the first rocket hits, get near & wrench, get away, wait until the 2nd, repeat. Just like Engineers used to do against long range ICing Pyros in TFC?

At least while the splash damage is fixed, this should be the most viable tactic.
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Old 09-20-2008, 05:01 PM   #30
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The big problem is that it's just insanely easy to shoot at a sentry from a position where it doesn't shoot back. Nailgun and Super nailgun work great for this. In the second or two it takes you, the engineer, to solve this problem, your sentry will be dead. In TFC (and TF2 for that matter) it is far, far harder to use a corner as cover from a sentry. In both cases you usually had to duck in and out, as opposed to FF where half your body can be completely visible to the sentry but it still won't shoot.
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:06 PM   #31
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Well the sentry is a little weaker but some of you are forgetting this is a Team Based Game it requires team work. I don't have that many issues keeping my sentry up if my team is working with me. All alone ya it's not so good but they go up faster, dispenser replenish quicker , rail gun gives 40 cells on over charge, a lot was done to help balance the sentry. It's not meant to be "I got my sentry to level 3 ha ha now I don't have to worry".
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:53 PM   #32
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I agree with Chilled. Engi's been a fav class and it doesn't feel as fun playing it anymore for some reason. Though now I'm enjoying playing as every other class I wouldn't play now like Heavy and Spy.

-weaker sg
-cloaks can approach it
-weaker EMP

+very powerful rail gun
+regenerates armor
+quick building sg
+regenerates cells
+improved dispensers

SGs seem much easier to kill now. But they can get rebuilt and up to 3 like nothing. Maybe engis will need to change their tactics.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:33 PM   #33
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EMP isn't "weaker", as now it gains damage from packs around it. Throw some packs and toss an EMP and it'll do more damage.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:19 AM   #34
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It's sad that nobody mentions how incredibly OP the dispenser is for blowing offensive players up now.

20% ammo=dead medics.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:58 AM   #35
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Quote:
Hum, if there's a single Soldier shooting at you, instead of ducking whacking the Gun, wait until the first rocket hits, get near & wrench, get away, wait until the 2nd, repeat. Just like Engineers used to do against long range ICing Pyros in TFC?

At least while the splash damage is fixed, this should be the most viable tactic.
I've tried that, it could be possible and I just suck at it, but I think the damage/knockback from the splash lasts longer than the time it takes for the soldier to shoot his next rocket, so you can be looking at pretty much a constant barrage with no window for you to run in and smack it with the wrench.
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:27 AM   #36
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Use the old I-am-a-wall-and-cannot-be-moved trick! (if it works in Fortress Forever)

Hold +use (use...), +speed (walk) and +duck (duck...), then wack away!!!
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:50 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Credge
It's sad that nobody mentions how incredibly OP the dispenser is for blowing offensive players up now.

20% ammo=dead medics.
Yea...gets to the point of being purely lame and requires absolutely no skills...

Shit needs to be tweaked :l
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
Once rockets don't bounce engis around when they are behind their SG's, you guys shouldn't have anything to complain abut. Until then, find some creative way to dodge them rockets.
I kinda agree with this, but put one more second to built the sg to kinda balance things up, just my opinion : P
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:52 AM   #39
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what would people think about the idea of letting the SG fire "curveball" rockets at players who are damaging the SG or currently tracked but out of LoS? ie, the SG would fire purposely wide, then the rocket would have a small ability to curve itself back in at the target (with a limited angular velocity) so the rockets would effectively go round corners to a very mild extent.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:20 AM   #40
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Once again, I feel that it's the job of the defenders or the engy him/herself to get the opponent into LoS.
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