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Old 06-27-2014, 09:42 AM   #141
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I like the movement in the Soul Calibur series that set it apart from traditional 2D fighters. That and the ability to parry attacks.

Metal Warriors on SNES was a game where each character had its own unique style all the way from weapons to design right down to the movement.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:47 AM   #142
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Reminds me of hook mod for tfc, which was horrible all around. I'd rather the spy have some other skill/technique that helps with speed, maybe something similar to the assassins from Half Life/Black Mesa, but without the flips n shit.
That's bullshit, you know it would be way better than the shitty hook mod. My only qualm is that it probly wouldn't take much skill, but then the results wouldn't be so powerful as to require a high skill ceiling. Even still there would be skill involved with chaining a small amount of hooks together (say two tops...) to get a sort of sling shot effect. It wouldn't really be over powered and it'd be a great amount of fun for the spy. Beyond movement it would also allow the spy to hide in harder to reach places which plays well into the whole sneaky spy thing.

It's a concept that could be picked up immediately by newer players, and also perfected by veterans with larger map/physics based knowledge. Which is the biggest bonus and kind of exactly what we're looking for.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:30 PM   #143
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ff_spyskillz map coming soon !! grapple posse make some noise in the area!

hook mod was addictive but unrefined, it would be worth adding as a server option in case for some reason it really borked game play
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:38 PM   #144
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My favorite movement : Grenade jumping which I had to use with the spy.

As for hook for the spy. Treat it like a conc, you only have a limit number of times you can use it. This eliminates having to use grenades to reach certain places or move across the mid map.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:53 PM   #145
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Good point, Geo. Limited uses would be important.

And chain hooks could add some depth as FDA pointed out.

In terms of just fun movement in games, I liked Mirror's Edge.

And Mario Galaxy with all the cool gravity based rotational tricks you could do.

I doubt either of those would be 100% applicable to a fortress game, but wall running for some classes could be cool.

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Old 06-27-2014, 04:17 PM   #146
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I'm interested what people would say is their overall favourite game movement system excluding bhop?

For me it's Mario Kart: powersliding, shroom/pad/ramp-boosting, slipstreaming, gliding (plus spin-boosting and antigravity in MK8.)
Mario 64 hands down

Also, not a fan of the grappling hook.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:44 PM   #147
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Trying to find what made TFC fun, picking and choosing, that's fine, but it's one mode. If Valve is remaking TFC, great. I doubt they are though.

We have nothing to lose starting with TFC as a base. We can start with classic mode and branch off any way we want, including a pure FF remake and/or an FF reimagining. If we start with FF as a base for the remake, which FF are we using? What are the features? What gets tweaked? Cut? Added? There's too much to figure out and we already know from 10 years of FF development that we'll never please everyone and in fact, most people will move along because they came here for this Fortresss experience but got that Fortress experience.

One thing I learned from FF the first go around is that we kinda worried too much about what Valve might have been doing with TF2 and we never gave people a chance to play a more familiar TF game, we just took people down the FF rabbit hole with the most intense tunnel vision possible.

Starting with a known base and expanding from there is exactly the right thing to do now just as much as it would have been the right thing to do 10 years ago.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:47 PM   #148
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Also, as for movement and someone brought up Mario Kart, outrunning a red turtle shell in Super Mario Kart (not in this video but this is where I practiced doing it with my friends and family)

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Old 06-27-2014, 06:24 PM   #149
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If we start with FF as a base for the remake, which FF are we using? What are the features? What gets tweaked? Cut? Added?
Would we use FF 1.0, 2.0 etc etc...


Ok then, which TFC do you remake? Uncapped bhop or current bhop? Super concs or current concs? Do you make it so I can shoot my ac faster the lower I put my fps? You can't just say FF isn't doable because it's gone through various patches. If you can use TFC as it is now, you can use FF as it is now.

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We can start with classic mode and branch off any way we want, including a pure FF remake and/or an FF reimagining.
It baffles me how you think it's too confusing to sort out FF, but you come up with ideas like that. And that's exactly what I've been making a big deal out of the entire time.

Don't segregate the community like that. And don't just go forward making what ever as a base with the idea that you'll just make a new mode later to fit some niche.

Make one game and make it solid. Have a lot of map types, not a large variation of the core game mechanics.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:23 PM   #150
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What I liked about the fortress games is the whole movement. anything related to rocket jumps, bhop and conc grens of course is pretty sound in my books. easy to learn, but hard to master. generally the fast paced style still is second to none compared to current games with huge communities.

that's probably why I had stuck around for so long.

something I'd love to see is a DM mode. just like quake. extremely fast paced action with team-dm and f4a.

if a new fortress could find a split between fast and casual action for regular players and highly skilled clan experiences for hardc0re veterans it could be a success.
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:03 PM   #151
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if a new fortress could find a split between fast and casual action for regular players and highly skilled clan experiences for hardc0re veterans it could be a success.

I've always hated this mind set of dividing casual play and exp play, just because someone is a casual player does not mean they don't have the same mindset as a 'hardcore' player. I'm one of those who prefers to play on a 'casual' level, but with the strictness of 'hardcore'.

Splitting up the two is what causes niches in gaming communities. You do not need to split, but a seamless transition between the two. Granted with a class role system it's a bit harder to do this, as everyone will have different opinions of what each class role should be.

Quote:
We have nothing to lose starting with TFC as a base. We can start with classic mode and branch off any way we want, including a pure FF remake and/or an FF reimagining. If we start with FF as a base for the remake, which FF are we using? What are the features? What gets tweaked? Cut? Added? There's too much to figure out and we already know from 10 years of FF development that we'll never please everyone and in fact, most people will move along because they came here for this Fortresss experience but got that Fortress experience.
Personally, I'd say port the latest version off that we have to what ever engine is going to be used and is that as a base. Why? Because honestly, if I wanted to play TFC, I'd load up TFC and play TFC, not load up FF and play TFC. FF is not and should not be TFC, should it be influenced by TFC? Yes.

Quote:
We have nothing to lose starting with TFC as a base.
What will we lose if we start with FF 2.4.x as a base?
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:38 PM   #152
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What i meant to write was that if it provided fun for casual players as in people who play now and then (mostly pub games) and the same amount of fun for pickup and cw, it could be great.

Example: i can get on a cs server, fool around and be entertained. at the same time it offers various ways of skilled and challenging serious stuff.

it requires a big crowd. In order to get that noobs need to get frags and action quickly to make sure they enjoy themselves and stay. At the same time it must still challenge highly skilled players - skill maps, clan wars, tournaments
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:03 PM   #153
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You do not need to split, but a seamless transition between the two.
Basically this. Of the 1000+ hours of pickups I've played in the past, the most common occurrence I would see with someone new would be they'd play for a week or so and finally get tired of getting yelled at every single game and leave. This happened time and time again. It honestly frustrated me so much because these are the people who could have been future hardcore players had people had some patience, but I soon realized this is just the nature of a competitive community. Especially in FF; people who are so competitive that they have to win at a game with 20 players are going to want to win even if it slowly destroys their own community. You can't fix the personality, you have to work around it.

What there needs to be is a middle ground, some way to build the skill of a public player to at least being good enough that they don't constantly incite the rage of the more competitive players and make it so unfun that they leave. Also a place for people who want more than a pub but don't want to invest time to compete with the best and don't want to deal with the BS that comes with that. That describes every clan I played with in FF, the most common reason I got from people for lack of interest other than "ded" was no clans at our level (either way lower or way higher) or not wanting to deal with the top level assholes who nolife the game (like me, but I'm usually pretty nice ). TFC accomplished this with league divisions and ovd clan style servers. CS has matchmaking. MMOs have grind. These are all working ideas, but for it to fundamentally work you need a player base; you can't do any of these with 20 players.

What this comes down to is the incentive for new players to become part of the community at the low end of the skill/involvement spectrum has to be there first to build the foundation of the community; comp play and the stepping stones involved in sustaining it are built on top of that. FF, Quakelive, Warsow, and probably others all tried putting their focus on comp play, and comp play failed as a result. Same problem, skill gap from here to the moon, comp players actually made it worse, not enough players in general to form the mid level.

Giant tangent and tldr, yea, that's how I roll.

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Old 06-27-2014, 10:15 PM   #154
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In my opinion, the main reason why segregating a community to different game styles is if the community is small. If it has a big following, then the separation would likely have far less of an impact on the game's success. I think we should aim BIG, but we should try to hit as close to home as we can. Making a new game only to have it end up like FF is something nobody wants I'm sure. Yes, rebuild TFC, but I'd rather it not stay as a TFC with fancy graphics.

Once created, it should be built upon until you have a game that keeps the essence of past TF games but learning from the mistakes that each game had. Some of those mistakes are easier to spot than others such as TFC teleporters or the FF Pyro. If any other games are born from that, they should take the backseat until a large enough community is created with the main game.

I mean just look at the game mode possibilities you would have with just one game:

Casual Mode
- CTF
- AVD
- Sequential CTF
- Team Deathmatch
- Command Point
- Rats DM
- Murderball
- Skill
- Other

Competitive Mode
- CTF
- AVD
- Sequential CTF
- Team Deathmatch
- Command Point

Would that not already be watered down enough? Now imagine those options for 2 or 3 different styles of Fortress game.
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:59 AM   #155
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So, is anything even happening with a new game or...?

We've got 50,000 ideas and zero implementation. Game looking good so far
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:52 AM   #156
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Yeah some dev journals would be nice. *hides*
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Old 06-28-2014, 10:48 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by FDA_Approved View Post
Would we use FF 1.0, 2.0 etc etc...


Ok then, which TFC do you remake? Uncapped bhop or current bhop? Super concs or current concs? Do you make it so I can shoot my ac faster the lower I put my fps? You can't just say FF isn't doable because it's gone through various patches. If you can use TFC as it is now, you can use FF as it is now.

It baffles me how you think it's too confusing to sort out FF, but you come up with ideas like that. And that's exactly what I've been making a big deal out of the entire time.
Pretty much.
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Old 06-28-2014, 10:51 PM   #158
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Yes, rebuild TFC, but I'd rather it not stay as a TFC with fancy graphics.

Once created, it should be built upon until you have a game that keeps the essence of past TF games but learning from the mistakes that each game had.
This is what everyone is saying. Then why rebuild from TFC scratch?


Cut the stupid shit TFC has AT THE BEGINNING and save a lot of headache.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:41 PM   #159
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I don't quite understand what is going on here. How are you going to remake TFC on a different Engine? That alone means it isn't going to be TFC. You mean Fortress Forever 2.

My advice is tweak TFC. Sort the Pyro, bugs, make some new maps (or edit current maps), models, textures and whatever else on this custom GldSrc engine (or some other modded engine I don't know about) Custom match modes/options built in will be brilliant, like nade radius etc :
http://www.moddb.com/engines/xash3d-engine



But Valve wouldn't allow this, right? Since TFC isn't free.

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Old 07-02-2014, 03:56 AM   #160
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i'm with you paft i have no idea what anyone here is talking about.
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