Probation and Parole Systems

battery · 05-23-2008, 08:33 AM

I heard there are quite a few members here who have knowledge or experience in the probation/parole system. I totally did not understand what was going on in Dr Satan's thread, because I don't know jack about probation/parole. I heard that if the judge gives you 2-year-probation, you will be evaluated at the end of that time period (provided that you don't break any agreement.) If the judge decides you have "failed" probation, you get sent to prison or be given more probation. If you "pass", you become a free man.

So what does it take to "pass" probation and parole? Do you have to obtain a promotion at work? Do you need good letters of recommendation from reputable people? Do you have to complete certain amount of community services? Do you have to complete courses from education institutions?

I am curious, and would like to learn more. Any information is appreciated.
________
Babe french

Ihmhi · 05-23-2008, 04:41 PM

Part of it is seeing a probation officer, I believe - i.e. regular meetings where they assess the conditions of your parole (employment status, drug test, etc.) If you don't miss any of them without good reason and don't commit any major crimes during probation, you're in the clear. That's the gist of it as I understand it.

TerrorFakt · 05-23-2008, 05:40 PM

Ive never really heard of seeing a judge at the end of probation....you usually get a parole officer you have meetings with biweekly or monthly who suprvises you and make sures your working, staying out of trouble, going to classes you need to take as part of parole, giving you random drug tests...then if he deems you a good candidate they can let you go on unsupervised probation...mind you this is for felonys....misdemeanor offenses usually dont come with a parole officer....you just basically have to stay out of trouble and as long as you do or dont get caught in that time frame your in the clear....

CatzEyes93 · 05-23-2008, 10:10 PM

Or like in the case of my son, even though he will be 21 in june, his probation is not up until july... he is still not allowed to drink even though he will be 'legal' to do so in june.

It is screwy if you ask me, but hey.. you get yourself in that perdikerment, you pay the piper.

Dr.Satan · 05-26-2008, 08:49 PM

yeah you pretty much have the jist of it.

The way it works is like this:

There is parole and / or probation:

IF you go to prison (ie: State Penitentiary like "Alcatraz") then you have a prison sentence...say it's 2 yrs. and a parole sentence usually like 1 yr. but can be more based on how severe your crime is / was. So you do the prison time and then when you get out, you have to do the parole time. Essentially it's the system's way of ensuring that you are going to be a proactive member of society and that prison hasn't made you into even more of a criminal. So you have weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly (usually they lessen based on how "good" you have been) meetings with a parole officer (has a badge and is a cop, can arrest you at anytime). You have to maintain a job, pay the parole fee, and not commit any crimes (shoplifting, jaywalking...anything), and generally UA's and or BA's (Urinalysis or Breath Alizer) to ensure that you are not doing any drugs. There are penalties for messing up...but generally you don't get a lot of chances. IF you mess up your go in front of your counties Parole Board. They look over the infraction and decided how to handle it. Generally they will send you right back to prison, but sometimes they are nice and will just make you take classes (drug therapy, counseling, whatever) at your expense or something like that. At the end of the 1yr. term (provided you have not gotten in trouble) you are released. This is called a Mandatory Release Date. Once that date is reached, they can not extend your time and there is no review.

That is parole.

Probation is easier and less severe. If you get probation, it generally means "instead of prison" and you probably did some time in jail (county like Denver County or New York has like 30 counties) and you got / accepted a deal from the District Attorney to avoid prison. In my case, I took 3yrs. probation instead of doing 6 - 10 yrs in prison. Probation is very similar to parole but not exactly the same. On probation your report to a probation officer (no badge, and must call the cops to arrest you). You generally get community service, classes (therapy or the like), and have court cost and / or restitution to pay. You again meet with the probation officer weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly depending on what they feel is needed and you still have to keep a job and all that. Terms and conditions vary and are determined at sentencing. At the end of your probation, the judge, DA, and your probation officer all sit down and discuss your case to see if you have abide by the terms and conditions set forth at sentencing. If you have or they fell you have then they will let you go. IF you have not or they feel you have not, then they will issue a motion to extend your probation. You can either accept (sign the paper and go with however long they say) or deny (don't sign). IF you deny, they will issue a warrant for your arrest and issue a motion to revoke probation. This then goes to a hearing whereby they judge listens to the DA and your lawyer. There is no "reasonable doubt" like in a court battle you would see on T.V. and there is no chance for a jury. They will state the terms they feel you failed to comply with and you have to disprove that. Even if there are 20 terms they "claim" you didn't do and you disprove all but 1 they still win...it only takes one to be found in violation. If you loose...it's up to the judge what happens, but generally they will send you to prison b/c you have messed up on probation in their eyes. OR you can accept the plea agreement the DA and your lawyer will argue over (before the hearing) in an attempt to resolve the case w/out having to go in front of a judge.

That's probation.

I'm currently in the latter part of probation...Sentenced to 3yrs, did that w/out a single violation, they felt I didn't do everything, tried to extend, I denied, I can't prove they are wrong so instead I have now accepted a plea offer from the DA. Now just waiting for sentencing to either prison or the halfway house.

CatzEyes93 · 05-31-2008, 03:30 PM

I am sorry to hear that dr. saten... so what do they got you for... um.. i mean... so what is it that you are innocent of?

My son hit his (at the time) wifes car windshield and it busted. she called the cops, they called it domestic abuse. July 20th will be the end of it but he is finishing up the last of 36 classes. He still hasta do pee tests every week and he still cant drink even when he becomes 'legal'...

Circuitous · 05-31-2008, 09:14 PM

Satan's a victim of the war on drugs.

Dr.Satan · 05-31-2008, 10:02 PM

lmao that sounds so wrong, but it's totally true!

shadow · 05-31-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Satan

In my case, I took 3yrs. probation instead of doing 6 - 10 yrs in prison.

sounds like two unbalanced options lol

Dr.Satan · 05-31-2008, 10:52 PM

lol yeah...that's what they told me I was facing though, I've since learned that it is never as bad as it *can* be unless you fuck up a ton.

Dr.Satan · 05-31-2008, 10:53 PM

lol yeah...that's what they told me I was facing though, I've since learned that it is never as bad as it *can* be unless you fuck up a ton.

And if I had know that 3yrs probation, really would end up being 3yrs probation and 2yrs in a halfway house...I probably would have just done the fucking time

battery · 06-01-2008, 12:40 AM

Although Dr Satan considers probation to be less severe than parole, I think it is easier to successfully complete a parole. In a parole, all you need to do is abide by the law. Obeying the law is something expected out of anybody. Committing minor infraction generally results in arrested and arraignment, whether the criminal is a parolee or not.

From Dr Satan's descriptions, probation appears harder to complete. The DA and the judge can make arbitrary goals for you to achieve. For example, there was a worker in a construction site who accidentally dropped a heavy brick on the floor. The brick broke the wooden floor and killed an unlucky worker below. The worker was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. (This is the lightest sentence you get for killing someone due to you fault) He was given 1-year probation, no jail time and no fines, and was required to be able to deadlift 200 lbs by the end of probation. It sounded reasonable and all, since he killed someone partly due to physical weakness. I don't know if that guy made it or not, but the point is, for many people 200 lbs is quite a challenge, perhaps an unreasonable goal.

I prefer a parole anytime, since the judge cannot be too creative with the conditions.
________
Vaaapp

Dr.Satan · 06-01-2008, 12:47 AM

I completely agree...that's why this time around I specifically told my lawyer that I would take prison over probation. My ability to walk around outside doesn't over weigh the extreme amount of bullshit and hang ups there are.

IMHO probation is a life sentence...they will keep you as long as they possibly can and that is usually a very long time. You would literally have to live in a little white room and only eat and sleep to make it through. And even then they would get you for not paying fines or for cussing or some shit.

Parole is easy...you have rules, you follow them and if you don't, you go to prison (again), if you do, on blah date, your off. No questions asked.

battery · 06-01-2008, 12:57 AM

And war on drug is stupid. I heard someone was given a mere warning by the federal prosecutor for forging a signature on someone's else check! Yet they won't even have second thought for charging someone for stocking up too much weed for personal use.
________
Lsd Rehab Advice

Dr.Satan · 06-01-2008, 07:21 AM

idk about it being stupid...I

Manufactured meth
sold it
stole the ingredients to make it
sold weed
sold acid
sold mushrooms
sold extacy
sold cocane
sold prescription drugs
stole for all of them
fought for all of them
hurt people for all of them
used all of the above on a regular basis (and generally more then most have seen in their life)
dropped out of high school b/c of my addictions
lost my job b/c of of my addicitions
got kicked out of my house b/c of my addictions (and my dad smoked with me...but I was "too much for him")
stole cars b/c of my addictions
robbed people b/c of my addictions
I have sold to mothers who would instead of feeding their children buy from me
I have been offered sex for drugs by women
I have made / seen people do the most disgusting things you can think of for my drugs and worse
I have sold people bleach and called it acid, drywall and called it coke, oregano and called it weed.
I have put people in hospitals b/c of one reason or another relating to drugs (mainly money)
I have seen people kill themselves (literally) doing the wrong kind of drug or too much
I have seen people shot, stabbed, or beat to death b/c of drugs

and I did it all with a song in my heart every single day of the week all day and night. I was one of the worst people you would ever meet...it wasn't just "bud" for me, and it wasn't just a little bit. I did everything I could and I did a lot of it, and I infected everyone around me and encouraged them to do the same. Every person I met was just another score to me, another sale. Friend, family member, child, mother, it didn't matter to me you should and would get addicted and I would be your dealer. And on top of that, I knew 50 other guys / girls that were just as bad as me, and we all knew it and laughed about it!

If anyone deserved to be stopped, it was me. I don't regret getting arrested and I don't hate the judicial system b/c of it. I appreciate what has been done for me and I know that had I not gotten arrested, I would either be dead or killing more people than I have already (not necessarily by my own hand, but my drugs killed more people than I can count and most of them I didn't even know). And now I am simply paying for my actions...if you don't believe in karma, believe me...I'm paying for what I have done, and I deserve every bit of it...

GeoKill-----> · 06-01-2008, 09:56 AM

Thats deep man

FrenchToast · 06-01-2008, 08:40 PM

That should be in a book.

Circuitous · 06-01-2008, 11:55 PM

It's actually pretty difficult to believe.

Dr.Satan · 06-02-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

It's actually pretty difficult to believe.

that I did all that or that I feel that way? I assure you, everything I put there and more is 100% true. Although I can see how that would be difficult to believe. Also I didn't really put that for sympathy, but it just aggravates me when people say things like "fighting drugs is stupid" or "we shouldn't bog up our jails with drug crimes" b/c I disagree 100% and I got caught. Most people in my shoes (my older brother included) feel the exact opposite of me and resent the system and blame others for their mistakes, I did it all of my own will and I don't regret anything that happened in my life or expect anyone to feel bad for me or sympathize with me. I don't really deserve that TBH and no one in my position does.

battery · 06-02-2008, 01:18 AM

I only mentioned that putting weed users in prison is stupid. Drug dealers and cocaine users should be put into prison to protect the rest of society.
________
Blowjob public

05-23-2008, 08:33 AM	#1
battery D&A Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Probation and Parole Systems I heard there are quite a few members here who have knowledge or experience in the probation/parole system. I totally did not understand what was going on in Dr Satan's thread, because I don't know jack about probation/parole. I heard that if the judge gives you 2-year-probation, you will be evaluated at the end of that time period (provided that you don't break any agreement.) If the judge decides you have "failed" probation, you get sent to prison or be given more probation. If you "pass", you become a free man. So what does it take to "pass" probation and parole? Do you have to obtain a promotion at work? Do you need good letters of recommendation from reputable people? Do you have to complete certain amount of community services? Do you have to complete courses from education institutions? I am curious, and would like to learn more. Any information is appreciated. ________ Babe french Last edited by battery; 03-31-2011 at 12:54 PM.

05-23-2008, 04:41 PM	#2
Ihmhi [AE] 0112 Ihmhi SJB Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Newark, NJ, United States Class/Position: A little bit o' everythin' Gametype: Also a little bit o' everythin' Affiliations: [AE] Asseater, SJB Straight Jacket Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Part of it is seeing a probation officer, I believe - i.e. regular meetings where they assess the conditions of your parole (employment status, drug test, etc.) If you don't miss any of them without good reason and don't commit any major crimes during probation, you're in the clear. That's the gist of it as I understand it. __________________ Support FF: Anime: The Thread: Reloaded The one and only anime thread on these here forums. Select the pistol, and then, select your horse.

05-23-2008, 05:40 PM	#3
TerrorFakt Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	yeah Ive never really heard of seeing a judge at the end of probation....you usually get a parole officer you have meetings with biweekly or monthly who suprvises you and make sures your working, staying out of trouble, going to classes you need to take as part of parole, giving you random drug tests...then if he deems you a good candidate they can let you go on unsupervised probation...mind you this is for felonys....misdemeanor offenses usually dont come with a parole officer....you just basically have to stay out of trouble and as long as you do or dont get caught in that time frame your in the clear....

05-23-2008, 10:10 PM	#4
CatzEyes93 Black Mesa Voice Actor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Or like in the case of my son, even though he will be 21 in june, his probation is not up until july... he is still not allowed to drink even though he will be 'legal' to do so in june. It is screwy if you ask me, but hey.. you get yourself in that perdikerment, you pay the piper. __________________ ___________________ Random Thoughts Only CatzEyes93.com

05-26-2008, 08:49 PM	#5
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	yeah you pretty much have the jist of it. The way it works is like this: There is parole and / or probation: IF you go to prison (ie: State Penitentiary like "Alcatraz") then you have a prison sentence...say it's 2 yrs. and a parole sentence usually like 1 yr. but can be more based on how severe your crime is / was. So you do the prison time and then when you get out, you have to do the parole time. Essentially it's the system's way of ensuring that you are going to be a proactive member of society and that prison hasn't made you into even more of a criminal. So you have weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly (usually they lessen based on how "good" you have been) meetings with a parole officer (has a badge and is a cop, can arrest you at anytime). You have to maintain a job, pay the parole fee, and not commit any crimes (shoplifting, jaywalking...anything), and generally UA's and or BA's (Urinalysis or Breath Alizer) to ensure that you are not doing any drugs. There are penalties for messing up...but generally you don't get a lot of chances. IF you mess up your go in front of your counties Parole Board. They look over the infraction and decided how to handle it. Generally they will send you right back to prison, but sometimes they are nice and will just make you take classes (drug therapy, counseling, whatever) at your expense or something like that. At the end of the 1yr. term (provided you have not gotten in trouble) you are released. This is called a Mandatory Release Date. Once that date is reached, they can not extend your time and there is no review. That is parole. Probation is easier and less severe. If you get probation, it generally means "instead of prison" and you probably did some time in jail (county like Denver County or New York has like 30 counties) and you got / accepted a deal from the District Attorney to avoid prison. In my case, I took 3yrs. probation instead of doing 6 - 10 yrs in prison. Probation is very similar to parole but not exactly the same. On probation your report to a probation officer (no badge, and must call the cops to arrest you). You generally get community service, classes (therapy or the like), and have court cost and / or restitution to pay. You again meet with the probation officer weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly depending on what they feel is needed and you still have to keep a job and all that. Terms and conditions vary and are determined at sentencing. At the end of your probation, the judge, DA, and your probation officer all sit down and discuss your case to see if you have abide by the terms and conditions set forth at sentencing. If you have or they fell you have then they will let you go. IF you have not or they feel you have not, then they will issue a motion to extend your probation. You can either accept (sign the paper and go with however long they say) or deny (don't sign). IF you deny, they will issue a warrant for your arrest and issue a motion to revoke probation. This then goes to a hearing whereby they judge listens to the DA and your lawyer. There is no "reasonable doubt" like in a court battle you would see on T.V. and there is no chance for a jury. They will state the terms they feel you failed to comply with and you have to disprove that. Even if there are 20 terms they "claim" you didn't do and you disprove all but 1 they still win...it only takes one to be found in violation. If you loose...it's up to the judge what happens, but generally they will send you to prison b/c you have messed up on probation in their eyes. OR you can accept the plea agreement the DA and your lawyer will argue over (before the hearing) in an attempt to resolve the case w/out having to go in front of a judge. That's probation. I'm currently in the latter part of probation...Sentenced to 3yrs, did that w/out a single violation, they felt I didn't do everything, tried to extend, I denied, I can't prove they are wrong so instead I have now accepted a plea offer from the DA. Now just waiting for sentencing to either prison or the halfway house. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-31-2008, 03:30 PM	#6
CatzEyes93 Black Mesa Voice Actor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	I am sorry to hear that dr. saten... so what do they got you for... um.. i mean... so what is it that you are innocent of? My son hit his (at the time) wifes car windshield and it busted. she called the cops, they called it domestic abuse. July 20th will be the end of it but he is finishing up the last of 36 classes. He still hasta do pee tests every week and he still cant drink even when he becomes 'legal'... __________________ ___________________ Random Thoughts Only CatzEyes93.com

05-31-2008, 09:14 PM	#7
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Satan's a victim of the war on drugs. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

05-31-2008, 10:02 PM	#8
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	lmao that sounds so wrong, but it's totally true! __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-31-2008, 10:52 PM	#10
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	lol yeah...that's what they told me I was facing though, I've since learned that it is never as bad as it can be unless you fuck up a ton. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-31-2008, 10:53 PM	#11
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	lol yeah...that's what they told me I was facing though, I've since learned that it is never as bad as it can be unless you fuck up a ton. And if I had know that 3yrs probation, really would end up being 3yrs probation and 2yrs in a halfway house...I probably would have just done the fucking time __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

06-01-2008, 12:40 AM	#12
battery D&A Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Although Dr Satan considers probation to be less severe than parole, I think it is easier to successfully complete a parole. In a parole, all you need to do is abide by the law. Obeying the law is something expected out of anybody. Committing minor infraction generally results in arrested and arraignment, whether the criminal is a parolee or not. From Dr Satan's descriptions, probation appears harder to complete. The DA and the judge can make arbitrary goals for you to achieve. For example, there was a worker in a construction site who accidentally dropped a heavy brick on the floor. The brick broke the wooden floor and killed an unlucky worker below. The worker was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. (This is the lightest sentence you get for killing someone due to you fault) He was given 1-year probation, no jail time and no fines, and was required to be able to deadlift 200 lbs by the end of probation. It sounded reasonable and all, since he killed someone partly due to physical weakness. I don't know if that guy made it or not, but the point is, for many people 200 lbs is quite a challenge, perhaps an unreasonable goal. I prefer a parole anytime, since the judge cannot be too creative with the conditions. ________ Vaaapp Last edited by battery; 03-31-2011 at 12:55 PM.

06-01-2008, 12:47 AM	#13
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	I completely agree...that's why this time around I specifically told my lawyer that I would take prison over probation. My ability to walk around outside doesn't over weigh the extreme amount of bullshit and hang ups there are. IMHO probation is a life sentence...they will keep you as long as they possibly can and that is usually a very long time. You would literally have to live in a little white room and only eat and sleep to make it through. And even then they would get you for not paying fines or for cussing or some shit. Parole is easy...you have rules, you follow them and if you don't, you go to prison (again), if you do, on blah date, your off. No questions asked. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

06-01-2008, 12:57 AM	#14
battery D&A Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	And war on drug is stupid. I heard someone was given a mere warning by the federal prosecutor for forging a signature on someone's else check! Yet they won't even have second thought for charging someone for stocking up too much weed for personal use. ________ Lsd Rehab Advice Last edited by battery; 03-31-2011 at 12:55 PM.

06-01-2008, 07:21 AM	#15
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	idk about it being stupid...I Manufactured meth sold it stole the ingredients to make it sold weed sold acid sold mushrooms sold extacy sold cocane sold prescription drugs stole for all of them fought for all of them hurt people for all of them used all of the above on a regular basis (and generally more then most have seen in their life) dropped out of high school b/c of my addictions lost my job b/c of of my addicitions got kicked out of my house b/c of my addictions (and my dad smoked with me...but I was "too much for him") stole cars b/c of my addictions robbed people b/c of my addictions I have sold to mothers who would instead of feeding their children buy from me I have been offered sex for drugs by women I have made / seen people do the most disgusting things you can think of for my drugs and worse I have sold people bleach and called it acid, drywall and called it coke, oregano and called it weed. I have put people in hospitals b/c of one reason or another relating to drugs (mainly money) I have seen people kill themselves (literally) doing the wrong kind of drug or too much I have seen people shot, stabbed, or beat to death b/c of drugs and I did it all with a song in my heart every single day of the week all day and night. I was one of the worst people you would ever meet...it wasn't just "bud" for me, and it wasn't just a little bit. I did everything I could and I did a lot of it, and I infected everyone around me and encouraged them to do the same. Every person I met was just another score to me, another sale. Friend, family member, child, mother, it didn't matter to me you should and would get addicted and I would be your dealer. And on top of that, I knew 50 other guys / girls that were just as bad as me, and we all knew it and laughed about it! If anyone deserved to be stopped, it was me. I don't regret getting arrested and I don't hate the judicial system b/c of it. I appreciate what has been done for me and I know that had I not gotten arrested, I would either be dead or killing more people than I have already (not necessarily by my own hand, but my drugs killed more people than I can count and most of them I didn't even know). And now I am simply paying for my actions...if you don't believe in karma, believe me...I'm paying for what I have done, and I deserve every bit of it... __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

06-01-2008, 09:56 AM	#16
GeoKill-----> Community Member Server Owner Beta Tester Forum Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hawthorne, California Class/Position: Soldier/Spy/Scout Gametype: AvD Affiliations: :e0:Eternal Order Leader Posts Rated Helpful 12 Times	Thats deep man __________________ Fortress-Forever Guides All Your Mapping Needs :e0: Will live on Forever Support FF:

06-01-2008, 08:40 PM	#17
FrenchToast The 1337est D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Omagosh Canada. Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	That should be in a book. __________________ James, while John had had 'had', had had 'had had' ; 'had had' had had a better effect on the teacher.

06-01-2008, 11:55 PM	#18
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	It's actually pretty difficult to believe. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

06-02-2008, 01:18 AM	#20
battery D&A Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I only mentioned that putting weed users in prison is stupid. Drug dealers and cocaine users should be put into prison to protect the rest of society. ________ Blowjob public Last edited by battery; 03-31-2011 at 12:56 PM.

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