ff_anticitizen (not cacti anymore) - Page 12

o_nezumi · 12-09-2006, 10:15 PM

I don't know. I keep meaning to bug jiggles about that.

Holy crap, I've been working on this map for like 8 consecutive hours now!

Soundscapes are in, although untested, the geometry is essentially finished, most of the bugs are worked out although none of the particle/sprite based effects (dust and steam) are working right. They don't show up or down't turn on or something. The 3D skybox works beautifully. On a funny side note, ALL of the 3D skybox is on the north side of the map. That's the only direction you can see out it, but you can see into it from all 3 areas which ties them all together in a realy cool way without raping the visleaves. That's where I'm planning to put the cactuses... er... cacti.

I still have to mess with the skybox but ffs I cannot figure out how to use alpha in photoshop or paintshop.

To do: Get the func_smokevolumes to work, fix a fucking stuipd lighting bug that's fuxoring the entire 3rd area, fix a slightly less stuipd fucking lighting bug that's minorly fuxoring the 1st area, clip/hint/areaportal and put in the FF ents. Then playtest ad-infinitum. This map is going to take a lot of work to balance.

P.S. Tyrus: Yea! I'm actually on MSN now btw. (imagine that).

o_unf · 12-09-2006, 10:16 PM

I demand updated pics of sexyness

o_nezumi · 12-09-2006, 10:29 PM

Son of a bitch!. Time to throw this map out and start a new one.

Code:

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\shishto@hotmail.com\sourcesdk\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\daisto@hotmail.com\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp" "C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\graryjer@hotmail.com\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\ff_cacti_07"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Aug  4 2006)
1 threads
materialPath: c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\daistoII@hotmail.com\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp\materials
Loading C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\lupo_montego_III@hotmail.com\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\ff_cacti_07.vmf
Brush 368975: MAX_MAP_BRUSHSIDES
Side 2
Texture: TOOLS/TOOLSTRIGGER

Well... maybe not. There's some optimising I could do...
...but I still have to put in the hint brushes...
Bah!

EDIT: False alarm. There's still tons of world geometry (func detail type stuff) I can turn into displacements. Still...

o_own3r · 12-09-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

Son of a bitch!. Time to throw this map out and start a new one.

Code:

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\shishto@hotmail.com\sourcesdk\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\daisto@hotmail.com\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp" "C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\graryjer@hotmail.com\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\ff_cacti_07"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Aug  4 2006)
1 threads
materialPath: c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\daistoII@hotmail.com\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp\materials
Loading C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\lupo_montego_III@hotmail.com\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\ff_cacti_07.vmf
Brush 368975: MAX_MAP_BRUSHSIDES
Side 2
Texture: TOOLS/TOOLSTRIGGER

Well... maybe not. There's some optimising I could do...
...but I still have to put in the hint brushes...
Bah!

EDIT: False alarm. There's still tons of world geometry (func detail type stuff) I can turn into displacements. Still...

The quake3 style "hull" is the way to go, can you really make alot of the detail displacements? Does it look any different to func_detail in terms of lighting?

o_nezumi · 12-10-2006, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Own3r

can you really make alot of the detail displacements? Does it look any different to func_detail in terms of lighting?

Yes and, unfortunately, yes.

The easiest thing to make out of displacements in terms of saving polys is round pillars. I have a bunch of 16 sided pillars with a top half and a bottom half (different textures) that I can save either 12 or 32 faces each on. It depends on whether a displacement counts as 1 or 6 faces. You can make a bunch of kinds of arches with displacements too. Like all the stone parts of the arches in this screenshot (which isn't from cacti) are displacements.

Displacements tend to not light correctly at their edges though, so you have to be carefull (or not if you're desperate). Although on the plus side they're usually much easier to texture.

o_beetle · 12-10-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

I don't know. I keep meaning to bug jiggles about that.

Holy crap, I've been working on this map for like 8 consecutive hours now!

Soundscapes are in, although untested, the geometry is essentially finished, most of the bugs are worked out although none of the particle/sprite based effects (dust and steam) are working right. They don't show up or down't turn on or something. The 3D skybox works beautifully. On a funny side note, ALL of the 3D skybox is on the north side of the map. That's the only direction you can see out it, but you can see into it from all 3 areas which ties them all together in a realy cool way without raping the visleaves. That's where I'm planning to put the cactuses... er... cacti.

I still have to mess with the skybox but ffs I cannot figure out how to use alpha in photoshop or paintshop.

To do: Get the func_smokevolumes to work, fix a fucking stuipd lighting bug that's fuxoring the entire 3rd area, fix a slightly less stuipd fucking lighting bug that's minorly fuxoring the 1st area, clip/hint/areaportal and put in the FF ents. Then playtest ad-infinitum. This map is going to take a lot of work to balance.

P.S. Tyrus: Yea! I'm actually on MSN now btw. (imagine that).

I dont exactly know what you're looking for with the alpha and photoshop, but i skimmed the snarkpit and found this tut:

http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=181

o_nezumi · 12-10-2006, 04:38 AM

Nah nah, that's just 2 texture blending. That's as easy as coppying a .vmt

o_bumgravy · 12-10-2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Brush 368975: MAX_MAP_BRUSHSIDES

Ouch thats a lotta brushes. You must surely have some crazy areas to reach this in HL2? Can you simplify some areas to get this down?

o_own3r · 12-10-2006, 09:40 PM

how big is this map? I'm interested to know what this limit means in real terms, also have you employed brush optimising techniques like using the cylinder tool instead of the arch tool for certain tasks.

o_nezumi · 12-10-2006, 10:30 PM

Edit, to answer Own3r's questions: I don't have hammer open right now, but as I remember the map is less than half the max size in the x and y directions, in fact it's closer to 1/3 or 1/4. It's almost as tall as it is wide. The map curls around itself a lot though, similar to the original dustbowl. It takes more than 2 minutes to run from the first spawn point to the last cap point at HL2:DM running (not sprinting) speed. The max brush limit on any map is 8192, and the max brushside limit (which I usually have more leeway on but is what I bumped into recently) is 65536. This is a limit on the compliler. The engine would be able to handle maps much bigger if they're vised well.

368975 is 45 times more brushes than you're actually allowed to use. I'm only using 7589 brushes and 62407 brushsides (so far). I don't know where the numbering system comes from. I think everything in your map (like brushes, vertices, polys, point entites, etc) use the same numbering system. So, realistically, there are something like 300000 'things' in the map. Also the number of things you delete don't get recycled or something. This is all speculation.

Anyway, as far as brush optimisation goes, this map is very very clean. There is a lot of geometry that can be turned into displacements still, but other than that I'm using almost the minimum amount of brushes I can for what I'm trying to do. If anyone wants to model me a quarter of a frustrum of specific dimensions, Hammer, the compilers and I would all be much happier. There's a particular shape of brush that I'm using a lot that the game really doesn't like. I can't (easily) make it out of displacements, and making out of terahedrons would use a ton of extra polies. As far as I can tell, everything that needs nodraw or skybox on it has it, although nodraw faces still count towards the max brush limit.

BUT NOT TO WORRY!! There's enough remaining geometry that I can make into displacements to clear up enough room to include the hints and area portals, and the map runs quite well without them already. So the map should come in under brush-budget and with a high framerate without needing to remove anything I wanted to put in.

o_beetle · 12-11-2006, 09:53 PM

How about this, Nezumi:

http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=113

edit: or this might be more of what i posted before...

o_tyrus · 12-11-2006, 10:19 PM

More screenshots please....

If we can't get media updates from the devteam, then we need the community mappers to make up for the dev's lack of...

o_sizeablessonic · 12-12-2006, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrus

More screenshots please....

If we can't get media updates from the devteam, then we need the community mappers to make up for the dev's lack of...

^Agreed.

Looking awsome Nezumi! I really like the lighting effects. They really look like a desert, especial with the dust motes.

o_nezumi · 12-12-2006, 10:08 AM

I'm (finally) on winter break after spending 16 hours finishing up homework on sunday (friday was my last day of class

). So it's all about cacti for the rest of the year (When I'm not mining in EVE online).

Parentheticals aside, cacti is really really close to being done, but I'm going to have to do some rather complicated deconstruction to fix the lighting in some spots. Raar! And I might just have a spare computer to do a full compile too. Expect new screenshots by, like, tomorow.

Beetle, that tutorial is indeed more of the same stuff, and is actually older than HL2. It came out just after the source was leaked.

o_saberwolf · 12-12-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoKill----->

http://invade-defend.com/default.php

Check out what they have to say since they are expert in that sort of gameplay

Hey! I'm a part of that group! Any hoo. It all looks very nice so far!

o_stino · 12-13-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

Son of a bitch!. Time to throw this map out and start a new one.

Code:

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\shishto@hotmail.com\sourcesdk\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\daisto@hotmail.com\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp" "C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\graryjer@hotmail.com\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\ff_cacti_07"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Aug  4 2006)
1 threads
materialPath: c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\daistoII@hotmail.com\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp\materials
Loading C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\lupo_montego_III@hotmail.com\sourcesdk_content\hl2mp\mapsrc\ff_cacti_07.vmf
Brush 368975: MAX_MAP_BRUSHSIDES
Side 2
Texture: TOOLS/TOOLSTRIGGER

Well... maybe not. There's some optimising I could do...
...but I still have to put in the hint brushes...
Bah!

EDIT: False alarm. There's still tons of world geometry (func detail type stuff) I can turn into displacements. Still...

hmm there is a limit on displacements to i suppose, ff_badlands compiles weird now, may have another reason to, i'm now trying to compile with cst

o_player · 12-13-2006, 01:05 PM

I doubt you could reach the 1024 displacement limit though without striving to reach the limit. If you do, there is seriously something wrong with your mapping technique : )

o_nezumi · 12-14-2006, 05:56 AM

I don't know about a 1024 displacement limit. This is the displacement related data for my map. I'm assuming this means I've got 496 displacements.

Code:

dispinfos              496/0           87296/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_verts           23320/0          466400/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_tris            34592/0           69184/0        ( 0.0%) 
disp_lmsamples     2068896/0         2068896/0        ( 0.0%)

o_nezumi · 01-04-2007, 09:46 AM

I think I figured out the lighting problem in this map. I probably hit some sort of disp_lmsamples maximum. So some displacements aren't getting any light. When I cordon off an area of the map and compile it, it lights fine.

I should be able to sort this out without removing anything from the map. Increasing lightmap size, maybe a command line to increase the max allowed lmsamples, combining displacements, etc.

o_gnyevko · 01-04-2007, 11:31 PM

HAY NEZ!

Outside the first entrance in on the far right side kinda in the corner there is that one building... it wouldn't hurt too much to remove it or just replace it with a single wall. It looks like the kind of thing that wouldn't be used much anyway. Then you would be free to map as you like for about 45 seconds until you hit the brush limit again.

12-10-2006, 10:30 PM	#230
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Edit, to answer Own3r's questions: I don't have hammer open right now, but as I remember the map is less than half the max size in the x and y directions, in fact it's closer to 1/3 or 1/4. It's almost as tall as it is wide. The map curls around itself a lot though, similar to the original dustbowl. It takes more than 2 minutes to run from the first spawn point to the last cap point at HL2:DM running (not sprinting) speed. The max brush limit on any map is 8192, and the max brushside limit (which I usually have more leeway on but is what I bumped into recently) is 65536. This is a limit on the compliler. The engine would be able to handle maps much bigger if they're vised well. 368975 is 45 times more brushes than you're actually allowed to use. I'm only using 7589 brushes and 62407 brushsides (so far). I don't know where the numbering system comes from. I think everything in your map (like brushes, vertices, polys, point entites, etc) use the same numbering system. So, realistically, there are something like 300000 'things' in the map. Also the number of things you delete don't get recycled or something. This is all speculation. Anyway, as far as brush optimisation goes, this map is very very clean. There is a lot of geometry that can be turned into displacements still, but other than that I'm using almost the minimum amount of brushes I can for what I'm trying to do. If anyone wants to model me a quarter of a frustrum of specific dimensions, Hammer, the compilers and I would all be much happier. There's a particular shape of brush that I'm using a lot that the game really doesn't like. I can't (easily) make it out of displacements, and making out of terahedrons would use a ton of extra polies. As far as I can tell, everything that needs nodraw or skybox on it has it, although nodraw faces still count towards the max brush limit. BUT NOT TO WORRY!! There's enough remaining geometry that I can make into displacements to clear up enough room to include the hints and area portals, and the map runs quite well without them already. So the map should come in under brush-budget and with a high framerate without needing to remove anything I wanted to put in. Last edited by o_nezumi; 12-10-2006 at 10:40 PM.

12-14-2006, 05:56 AM	#238
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I don't know about a 1024 displacement limit. This is the displacement related data for my map. I'm assuming this means I've got 496 displacements. Code: dispinfos 496/0 87296/0 ( 0.0%) disp_verts 23320/0 466400/0 ( 0.0%) disp_tris 34592/0 69184/0 ( 0.0%) disp_lmsamples 2068896/0 2068896/0 ( 0.0%)

12-09-2006, 10:15 PM	#221
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I don't know. I keep meaning to bug jiggles about that. Holy crap, I've been working on this map for like 8 consecutive hours now! Soundscapes are in, although untested, the geometry is essentially finished, most of the bugs are worked out although none of the particle/sprite based effects (dust and steam) are working right. They don't show up or down't turn on or something. The 3D skybox works beautifully. On a funny side note, ALL of the 3D skybox is on the north side of the map. That's the only direction you can see out it, but you can see into it from all 3 areas which ties them all together in a realy cool way without raping the visleaves. That's where I'm planning to put the cactuses... er... cacti. I still have to mess with the skybox but ffs I cannot figure out how to use alpha in photoshop or paintshop. To do: Get the func_smokevolumes to work, fix a fucking stuipd lighting bug that's fuxoring the entire 3rd area, fix a slightly less stuipd fucking lighting bug that's minorly fuxoring the 1st area, clip/hint/areaportal and put in the FF ents. Then playtest ad-infinitum. This map is going to take a lot of work to balance. P.S. Tyrus: Yea! I'm actually on MSN now btw. (imagine that).

12-09-2006, 10:16 PM	#222
o_unf Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I demand updated pics of sexyness

12-10-2006, 04:38 AM	#227
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Nah nah, that's just 2 texture blending. That's as easy as coppying a .vmt

12-10-2006, 09:40 PM	#229
o_own3r Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	how big is this map? I'm interested to know what this limit means in real terms, also have you employed brush optimising techniques like using the cylinder tool instead of the arch tool for certain tasks.

12-11-2006, 09:53 PM	#231
o_beetle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern USA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	How about this, Nezumi: http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=113 edit: or this might be more of what i posted before...

12-11-2006, 10:19 PM	#232
o_tyrus Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	More screenshots please.... If we can't get media updates from the devteam, then we need the community mappers to make up for the dev's lack of...

12-12-2006, 10:08 AM	#234
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'm (finally) on winter break after spending 16 hours finishing up homework on sunday (friday was my last day of class ). So it's all about cacti for the rest of the year (When I'm not mining in EVE online). Parentheticals aside, cacti is really really close to being done, but I'm going to have to do some rather complicated deconstruction to fix the lighting in some spots. Raar! And I might just have a spare computer to do a full compile too. Expect new screenshots by, like, tomorow. Beetle, that tutorial is indeed more of the same stuff, and is actually older than HL2. It came out just after the source was leaked.

12-13-2006, 01:05 PM	#237
o_player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I doubt you could reach the 1024 displacement limit though without striving to reach the limit. If you do, there is seriously something wrong with your mapping technique : )

01-04-2007, 09:46 AM	#239
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think I figured out the lighting problem in this map. I probably hit some sort of disp_lmsamples maximum. So some displacements aren't getting any light. When I cordon off an area of the map and compile it, it lights fine. I should be able to sort this out without removing anything from the map. Increasing lightmap size, maybe a command line to increase the max allowed lmsamples, combining displacements, etc.

01-04-2007, 11:31 PM	#240
o_gnyevko Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Topside. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	HAY NEZ! Outside the first entrance in on the far right side kinda in the corner there is that one building... it wouldn't hurt too much to remove it or just replace it with a single wall. It looks like the kind of thing that wouldn't be used much anyway. Then you would be free to map as you like for about 45 seconds until you hit the brush limit again.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)