Fixing the conc effect? - Page 9

o_player · 12-03-2005, 11:34 AM

Concs are no longer used to make people dizzy. Like Jarek said, it is now used to move people out of the way and to get from location A to location B much quicker. Using a conc to move people out of the way is much more effective than trying to use it to make the opponent dizzy, and it always has been.

Removing conc aim would be a very bad move and take away from the rapid gameplay that TFC has.

**mervaka** · 12-03-2005, 01:13 PM

thats purely because the concs were surpassed by skill in the first place. concs should remain true to their name fgs. cons were never designed as a transportation tool, but ended up so. concaim is just a silly skill that negates the effects of a grenade.

i know, lets make concaim really easy, so that everyone can do it. then concs can really be useless to concuss people!

o_ekim · 12-03-2005, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etzell

Actually, the whole point of a conc grenade is to disorient a player. That's why they get all dizzy. When concs were coded into the game, concjumping was an unforseen benefit. Concjumps are a bug, not the reason concs were made.

Maybe in TF. Not in TFC. Not in FF. "What was originally intended" seems utterly irrelevent, anyhow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka

i dont think concaim should return. its basically saying "if you do this, that and that, you can almost totally nullify the effects of a grenade!"

God forbid there should be learnable skills in FF.

o_coalesce · 12-03-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka

thats purely because the concs were surpassed by skill in the first place. concs should remain true to their name fgs. cons were never designed as a transportation tool, but ended up so. concaim is just a silly skill that negates the effects of a grenade.

i know, lets make concaim really easy, so that everyone can do it. then concs can really be useless to concuss people!

are you someone who goes around calling every hw you see a newb?

o_wilco · 12-03-2005, 07:11 PM

screw it, replace concs with flashbangs, and just let the medic/scout able to jump 50meters every 10seconds.
Nothing like being flashed in BF2 because some other bastard wants that attack copter!!! [/sarcasm]

Circuitous · 12-03-2005, 07:37 PM

I can't concjump in TF.

And then I just get knocked around.

I like the idea of a shorter concussed time but it being way way way more difficult to compensate for. Perhaps have it gradually be easier. That way concs have a brief, immediate benefit against an enemy. But within a second they should be able to aim at least moderately. 2-3 seconds and it's over.

What ideas have you devs come up with thus far? Join the spectacle.

**mervaka** · 12-03-2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coalesce

are you someone who goes around calling every hw you see a newb?

no. your point is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circuitous

I like the idea of a shorter concussed time but it being way way way more difficult to compensate for.

exactly what i was trying to say. maybe i was a bit OTT saying it should be impossible, but i still think it should only be able to be countered to a certain degree.

o_kaxxil · 12-03-2005, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekiM

God forbid there should be learnable skills in FF.

like aim (all included) movement (concs bhop strafe / glide jumps) and just abouteverything else in the fucking game?

GOD FORBID someone be conced and actually be impaired at all.

o_coalesce · 12-04-2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka

...concaim is just a silly skill that negates the effects of a grenade...

.........

that is my point.

**mervaka** · 12-04-2005, 08:38 AM

fool.

i never said it was easy to do, nor did i say i go round calling people that play HW 'newbs'. i was just saying that it really nullifies the effects of the grenade, and suggesting that concaim should only work to a certain degree.

but like circ said, if there was a really strong concuss effect for a really brief time, people should still be able to concjump, yet still use it effectively as a conc grenade.

o_ekim · 12-04-2005, 11:15 AM

Concaim already only works to a certain degree - humans are imperfect.

o_nezumi · 12-04-2005, 12:39 PM

If we're getting into semantics, then concaim works 100% of the time because the pattern is predictable. It's just that people can't correctly perform the action of concaiming all the time.

o_bokko · 12-04-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekiM

humans are imperfect

NO!

o_coalesce · 12-04-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka

fool.

i never said it was easy to do, nor did i say i go round calling people that play HW 'newbs'. i was just saying that it really nullifies the effects of the grenade, and suggesting that concaim should only work to a certain degree.

but like circ said, if there was a really strong concuss effect for a really brief time, people should still be able to concjump, yet still use it effectively as a conc grenade.

i never said you said any of that. i said it sounds like something someone that runs around calling every hw a newb would say. that is all. don't get your panties in a knot. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekiM

Concaim already only works to a certain degree - humans are imperfect.

yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

If we're getting into semantics, then concaim works 100% of the time because the pattern is predictable. It's just that people can't correctly perform the action of concaiming all the time.

conc aim has nothing to do with a pattern. you don't move your mouse in a certain pattern. you don't move in a figure 8. you don't have to move your mouse to keep your xhair on the target. you don't have to do anything. if you leave your mouse still, you will be aiming in the exact same spot you were aiming before you were conc'd. you move your mouse just like you would if you were not effected by the grenade, and no, that's not a pattern because the enemy almost always moves different. if the FF dev team changes the pattern of the illusion it will still work the exact same way as it does now. the point of it is that you can still aim but it is a bit harder.

o_kaxxil · 12-04-2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coalesce

conc aim has nothing to do with a pattern. you don't move your mouse in a certain pattern. you don't move in a figure 8. you don't have to move your mouse to keep your xhair on the target. you don't have to do anything. if you leave your mouse still, you will be aiming in the exact same spot you were aiming before you were conc'd. you move your mouse just like you would if you were not effected by the grenade, and no, that's not a pattern because the enemy almost always moves different. if the FF dev team changes the pattern of the illusion it will still work the exact same way as it does now. the point of it is that you can still aim but it is a bit harder.

I think the point is you can actually accomplish concaim two ways

remember where your trueaim is (this willl stil work in FF apparently)
or
determine where your trueaim is by the position of your gun (if it is tilted up, aim downwards.) [this apparently will be diffrent or may not work in ff]

o_coalesce · 12-04-2005, 09:12 PM

right now in tfc, your true aim is opposite your gun. far opposite at extreme and not so far opposite when you dont get conc'd as much. without a true tracer to aim by you have to go by blood. once you draw blood, begin following your enemy like normal (as if you weren't conc'd.. without using your xhair).

o_wlvy · 12-06-2005, 11:41 AM

Hm you see the problem is if you make concs super strong, it will unbalance a game, its unfair saying 1 conc will take 1 defender (or 2 or 3 if well placed) with 1 gren. It's not skillfull to aim a conc.

The effect _HAS_ to be learnable, there were some good images posted early on in the thread, however, think about a scout, your doing a nice balc2balc or a ramp slide on sd2, oh wait whats that? You can't see shit, nice one, take one of the mose effective skills out of the game.

The conc system does need a couple suttle changes, although im thinking if the hw is such a huge problems, address the tracer issue (in a way above me today) and maybe lower the field of fire. (which valve already did to tfc iirc.)

o_roybotnik · 12-06-2005, 06:26 PM

The HL2 engine is capable of a lot more than just moving your display around when you get conced. I am sure the fortress forever team will come up with a solution that involves the new tools at their disposal. There are different ways of doing things now.

o_sithdrummer · 12-07-2005, 02:11 AM

I think something along the lines of the "shell-shocked" effect in HL2 SP and early versions of CS:S's flashbang would work well. For reference, I'm talking about where, after the explosion, the last thing you saw is laid over what you're currently seeing, and slowly fades away to reveal what's really going on. I'm not saying that's exactly how it should be, but I think something along these lines would be better than a learnable, and thus ignorable, effect.

12-03-2005, 07:37 PM	#166
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	I can't concjump in TF. And then I just get knocked around. I like the idea of a shorter concussed time but it being way way way more difficult to compensate for. Perhaps have it gradually be easier. That way concs have a brief, immediate benefit against an enemy. But within a second they should be able to aim at least moderately. 2-3 seconds and it's over. What ideas have you devs come up with thus far? Join the spectacle. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

12-03-2005, 11:34 AM	#161
o_player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Concs are no longer used to make people dizzy. Like Jarek said, it is now used to move people out of the way and to get from location A to location B much quicker. Using a conc to move people out of the way is much more effective than trying to use it to make the opponent dizzy, and it always has been. Removing conc aim would be a very bad move and take away from the rapid gameplay that TFC has.

12-03-2005, 01:13 PM	#162
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	thats purely because the concs were surpassed by skill in the first place. concs should remain true to their name fgs. cons were never designed as a transportation tool, but ended up so. concaim is just a silly skill that negates the effects of a grenade. i know, lets make concaim really easy, so that everyone can do it. then concs can really be useless to concuss people!

12-03-2005, 07:11 PM	#165
o_wilco Join Date: May 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	screw it, replace concs with flashbangs, and just let the medic/scout able to jump 50meters every 10seconds. Nothing like being flashed in BF2 because some other bastard wants that attack copter!!! [/sarcasm]

12-04-2005, 08:38 AM	#170
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	fool. i never said it was easy to do, nor did i say i go round calling people that play HW 'newbs'. i was just saying that it really nullifies the effects of the grenade, and suggesting that concaim should only work to a certain degree. but like circ said, if there was a really strong concuss effect for a really brief time, people should still be able to concjump, yet still use it effectively as a conc grenade.

12-04-2005, 11:15 AM	#171
o_ekim Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bristol UK Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Concaim already only works to a certain degree - humans are imperfect.

12-04-2005, 12:39 PM	#172
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If we're getting into semantics, then concaim works 100% of the time because the pattern is predictable. It's just that people can't correctly perform the action of concaiming all the time.

12-04-2005, 09:12 PM	#176
o_coalesce Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: houston, texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	right now in tfc, your true aim is opposite your gun. far opposite at extreme and not so far opposite when you dont get conc'd as much. without a true tracer to aim by you have to go by blood. once you draw blood, begin following your enemy like normal (as if you weren't conc'd.. without using your xhair).

12-06-2005, 11:41 AM	#177
o_wlvy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Hm you see the problem is if you make concs super strong, it will unbalance a game, its unfair saying 1 conc will take 1 defender (or 2 or 3 if well placed) with 1 gren. It's not skillfull to aim a conc. The effect _HAS_ to be learnable, there were some good images posted early on in the thread, however, think about a scout, your doing a nice balc2balc or a ramp slide on sd2, oh wait whats that? You can't see shit, nice one, take one of the mose effective skills out of the game. The conc system does need a couple suttle changes, although im thinking if the hw is such a huge problems, address the tracer issue (in a way above me today) and maybe lower the field of fire. (which valve already did to tfc iirc.)

12-06-2005, 06:26 PM	#178
o_roybotnik Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The HL2 engine is capable of a lot more than just moving your display around when you get conced. I am sure the fortress forever team will come up with a solution that involves the new tools at their disposal. There are different ways of doing things now.

12-07-2005, 02:11 AM	#179
o_sithdrummer Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think something along the lines of the "shell-shocked" effect in HL2 SP and early versions of CS:S's flashbang would work well. For reference, I'm talking about where, after the explosion, the last thing you saw is laid over what you're currently seeing, and slowly fades away to reveal what's really going on. I'm not saying that's exactly how it should be, but I think something along these lines would be better than a learnable, and thus ignorable, effect.

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