What do you consider fairplay in a clanwar ?

[o_bokko]

Originally Posted by sensai

A good potshotter will shoot right before he turns a corner or goes into some covering, or while someone is concing and can't really respond in kind.

Here's a hint; the reason people refrain from doing this crap is not because they aren't good enough. Shooting people in the back to avoid getting caught, not exactly rocket science is it?...
I'm not surprised that such players would like to think of themselves as 'good potshotters', though!

[o_silencer]

anyone who says no "gentlemen rules" or rules are for pussies has never played competitive TFC. I used to play TFC when all the big name clans were around like m$, [FooM], and Zt. and it was common curtisey to play a clan match with certain rules such as no offensive chasing and things like that. Now as far as pubing and just playing normal games there should be no rules other then no cheating. so thats my two sense with this.

[o_jimyd]

Originally Posted by silencer

anyone who says no "gentlemen rules" or rules are for pussies has never played competitive TFC. I used to play TFC when all the big name clans were around like m$, [FooM], and Zt. and it was common curtisey to play a clan match with certain rules such as no offensive chasing and things like that. Now as far as pubing and just playing normal games there should be no rules other then no cheating. so thats my two sense with this.

You obviously have played against me, I can make teams cry in TFl.

=)

[o_sensai]

Originally Posted by bokko

Here's a hint; the reason people refrain from doing this crap is not because they aren't good enough. Shooting people in the back to avoid getting caught, not exactly rocket science is it?...
I'm not surprised that such players would like to think of themselves as 'good potshotters', though!

Good was just a relative term, synonymous with smart in this case. I was merely trying to make a point that people who potshot aren't the run of the mill idiots that they were made out to be. It was done in a relative sense, when you play no one really cares about your potshotting skills. It was just to make a point, never intended it to be discussed under this light.

[o_rannibunny]

why would you even want to hide who does the "pot-shotting" ? If someone of the enemy off attacks me (like three times) I shoot every last one of them.

[o_qui]

Yeah hiding dosnt do anything

If i get potshotted, i dont take names, i just do it back.

Its not "smart" to hide either, you might as well just do it in thier face.

[o_sensai]

I never said hide...

[o_darksoul]

dig dig dig

[o_fjorn]

First off, I find Dammage's rules a: horribly strict and b: made for a different game than TFC... ETF I am thinking, so other than declaring my opinion about their strictness, I will not mention them again.


Now as to potshotting... it is useless... all it does is piss off the other team, or it makes the other team shoot back, and then where are we? we have a pair of offence teams shooting at each other, getting 2-3 good ssg shots off... or the clan who played clean gets rather pissed that you didn't have the curtesy to play clean yourself.

And, in my experience, Yard defending isn't that effective, except on certain maps, such as monkey or well.

TBH, the attitude of clans these days are really putting me off of playing competatively... We have the "I'm better than you, better than you'll ever be, and therefor I am the better person and you are beneath my notice" attitude, the "I don't care if what I did was against the rules, I'm not going to admit that I did anything wrong" attitude, and finally the "I am going to win, no matter what" attitude

[o_nezumi]

I like to think of myself as in the "TFC is a game of strategy, so lets be aware of the efficacy of potshotting under different circumstances" camp.

[o_mikefed]

Yeh potshotting can work, if your 1 cap up and you manage to degenerate the game into a midmap dm there aren't gonna be any more caps. However, the match is then gonna be really really crap. There are many tactics that work and aren't used in tfc due to the fact it totally ruins the game.

[o_dark applepolisher]

Originally Posted by Tercel

playing monkey 8v8 with a front door hw makes me want to kill myself

Schtop is the worst.

Front door fatty on schtop made me quit TFC for a full 3 days.

[o_zaskar]

Originally Posted by FrenchToast

Fairplay? Anything short of cheating. Imposing rules is for pussies.

hells yea.

And WTF is that "no chasing" crap about. what kind of pussy bitches that someone who is supposed to be trying to kill them acually ran after them. This isnt bitch club. "oh know he is running, if only there was something i could do"

[Circuitous]

If you're gonna bitch about the "rules," have a fucking clue as to why they're there. It makes for a better debate.

[o_zaskar]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

If you're gonna bitch about the "rules," have a fucking clue as to why they're there. It makes for a better debate.

no o attacking O and no chasing is lame i couldnt give a rats ass the reason. Prob some crap like "it will just boil Offence into a big mobile defence unit" or some shit.

nothin worse then people bitchin that your not killing them in a proper manner, so freekin lame regardless of the reason it makes you look like a big girly man.

[Circuitous]

Thanks for proving my point, I guess.

[o_frosty]

Honestly the only things I consider unsportsmanlike is is spaming the spawns, the only reason to have an attack on the spawn is when someone runs into it to hide, you have every right to fallow em in (though its often not stratigicly sound). I can go either way about somone idle if an enemy drops, as a clan you should consider how dependable your teams conection is when you select them, but being one man up can be a huge advantage, and I would rather win were the only advantage one team ahs over the other is skill.

most of these rules I have seen mentioned are just foolish, no chasing as a rule, idiotic, no chasing as a tactic is fine. Chasing down a random enemy often is detrimental to your job (be it defending a certain location or gettin the enemy flag). "its no fun to get the enemy flag with 12 health left" man thats the best, thats were the real challange comes in, stealth and cunning, or maybe a medic/engy who are also on offence.

hell sometimes its viable to have your defence in the yard (not often to the point of nearly never but I have seen times werea very forward defence worked better than flagroom defence)

and what of the chaos position (That what I used to play back when I played), it was my job to mess with the other team, softening up there offence before they reached the deffence (or sometimes to soften there defence before our offence reached them)

if a potshot presents itself, take it. I can understand it not always being advantagous, it frequently is not, but sometimes it is, and to enforce a rule that cuts off that part of team stratagy is stupid, its not enhancing the gameplay, its dumbing it down. You should have to make the decision "will shooting this guy give away my position, if it does will it reduce my effectiveness in my role, and will it reduce my effectiveness more than my shot will reduce his, whats the probibilty of him shooting back/hitting, how does comparitive damage and comparitive health of my class and his make the comparitive difference in our effectiveness"

If all you want is two games going on simultainously then do that. play the offence/defence maps, or play to rounds of CTF and have only one sides caps counted each time (aka a blue offence round and a red offence round)

Ah well I prefer having a coordinate pub game over a clanmatch anyway (I defin a coordinated pub as a pub frequented by good players, who use actual team tactics.)

[o_addicted to morphine]

When I first started league play I couldn't really get my head around the no OvO rules. But... then it started making sense.

I played defensive Engy, and I really wanted to face an unwounded, focused adversary. If the offensive squads for both teams just midfield DMed the whole time, or wounded each other significantly every pass... it'd get pretty lonely/boring for me by the flag.

No chasing and no OvD makes the game more about keeping the flag in your base, and rebuffing strong and frequent attacks from the enemy O. OvD is a way to keep the game fun for the guys on D, and a way for the guys on O to only have to worry about outplaying the enemy D.

It's just a different way to play I guess. Some people like the idea of pure O v D, and some people prefer the whole "all's fair in love and war" approach. I enjoyed it because it wasn't the usual pub experience of spamming the flag on the 2fort bridge for 5 minutes before some competant medic finally grabbed it and conced out.

[o_qui]

The above post is more or less just wrong - (edit, the one above it :P)

most of these rules I have seen mentioned are just foolish, no chasing as a rule, idiotic, no chasing as a tactic is fine. Chasing down a random enemy often is detrimental to your job (be it defending a certain location or gettin the enemy flag). "its no fun to get the enemy flag with 12 health left" man thats the best, thats were the real challange comes in, stealth and cunning, or maybe a medic/engy who are also on offence.

No offy in the world, can make a mark in a defence with 12 HP, if the defence is even vaguely organised, and I'm talking like, division 5 here. No amount of sneaking or "cunning" will help you. You try and sneak in? Where? What way? Most defensive setups cover every route. You definitly wont be able to sneak to the flag. With 12 hp as you said, it would take one shot from a shotgun, and thats it.

hell sometimes its viable to have your defence in the yard (not often to the point of nearly never but I have seen times werea very forward defence worked better than flagroom defence)

Not to sound high and mighty, but was that at competitive play to a high level? Or on a public?. I dont mean to sound like an ass, but you just cant compare the difference in organisation and skill between a public server and a clan war.

and what of the chaos position (That what I used to play back when I played), it was my job to mess with the other team, softening up there offence before they reached the deffence (or sometimes to soften there defence before our offence reached them)

Sounds like a lack of faith in defence. Sacrificing an offence player to play "chaos", just makes you a more defensive team less likely to cap.

if a potshot presents itself, take it. I can understand it not always being advantagous, it frequently is not, but sometimes it is, and to enforce a rule that cuts off that part of team stratagy is stupid, its not enhancing the gameplay, its dumbing it down. You should have to make the decision "will shooting this guy give away my position, if it does will it reduce my effectiveness in my role, and will it reduce my effectiveness more than my shot will reduce his, whats the probibilty of him shooting back/hitting, how does comparitive damage and comparitive health of my class and his make the comparitive difference in our effectiveness"

Your analyzing it too much, this is what happens 99% of the time when you potshot

Enemy clan player goes: "wtf"
Enemy clan player goes on jihad of potshotting
Your team gets weaker, and returns the favour
Both offences are weaker

What has been the gain here?


When people go on about clan matches being "dumb", im afraid to see its almost always from someone who lacks experience in them.

It always seems to boil down to them thinking its about clan players wanting to dumb down the play, because they are somehow less skillful and dont posess the guile and cunning to overcome midfield battles and still cap the flag.

And i can appreciate this opinion when as a public player, you are generally playing against far less organised defences than a clan war. And im trying my hardest not to sound like an ass, but really its true. 99% of the time a clans defence is far better than a public defence, not always neccessairily because of skill. But because of the practice, organisation and communication that a clan defence has.

These rules are here because, if offence is attacking eachother, it is detrimental to each team. Attacking an organised defence can be hard enough with 100% HP, let alone half of it.

These rules are not even rules anyway really, they are gentlemens agreements. People can do it if they want, but people just wont like them, and they wont get played against.

But jesus, how many times have we gone around like this. The fact of that matter is, its always pub players going "TEH RULES ARE DUMB". Honestly, why is there all this clan play hate? I have never seen a clan player go, public play is stupid. Because I, like others, enjoy public play too. Its certainly less stressful

[o_addicted to morphine]

qui, I agree.

And I also (despite what my previous post may insinuate) really enjoy both pub and league play. Pub is fun just because its such chaos, and league play is fun for the strat, communication, and fierce fierce competition.