United States 2012 Presidential Election

[KubeDawg]

I just wanted to get an idea of people's views on this upcoming election. What candidates do you like, if any, and why? The primary issues this election season are the economy, jobs, taxes, foreign policy and immigration.

Has anyone been keeping up on the debates?

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

I just wanted to get an idea of people's views on this upcoming election. What candidates do you like, if any, and why? The primary issues this election season are the economy, jobs, taxes, foreign policy and immigration.

Has anyone been keeping up on the debates?

I think what you cited covers 100% of what we elect people to go to Washington to handle. I agree with you BTW that those issues are primary. You could certainly drill into sub-issues that are high visibility but they all fall into what you described.

I can find spot issues here and there with various candidates but none that really light me up. For example...I will hear a number of positions expressed by Ron Paul with which I agree and then he expresses one that make me wonder if he's taking crazy pills. I think that Herman Cain probably does that the least for me but even he has me shaking my head from time to time. I firmly believe that the closer we get to the Primaries and caucuses the less forthcoming the candidates will be with expressing their core beliefs.

Frankly the whole process makes me sad.

[Iggy]

^^ I couldn't agree more. Don't trust a damned thing ANY politician says during "Election Season".

They are looking to get your vote, and will say anything they have to to get it.

Just remember this much: Those in office, were put there to straighten shit out, but they bitch and argue about how, and refuse to make the compromises needed for the greater good. In essense, they are holding up the progress that could happen, because they think they won't get all the credit for fixing the problems.

Personally, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Both sides blame the other for the mess we're all in, and say that each other is blocking progress. Quit the fucking blame game, and work it out before it's too late! It is for this reason, my voting theology has been "Re-elect NO ONE!" for the past 2 decades.

[Innoc]

D.R.I.P indeed

[BinaryLife]

I also agree. However I find it odd that polls show that 75% of the country is in favor of a tax increase, and yet no running politician will acknowledge that thought. Other than Obama... but he doesn't really count.

I have become more democratic lately, and I used to enjoy considering myself independent. For that reason I was hoping to see some republican runners that had a good perspective of serious issues. I don't feel like any of them are very strong.

I also think Ron Paul says a lot of things I'd like to see done. However if half of what he was were ever accomplished I'd be amazed. Or terrified, depending on which half.

Edit: With Iggy, I'd love to see a 100% change in administration. new congressmen, new president, vice president. Everyone changes. Start Fresh.

[KubeDawg]

Agreed on Ron Paul. His plans may seem drastic, but this country is in the shitter and we need drastic measures. Not someone who is bought by corporate America. He's the truest form of a republican I've seen so far. Only other candidate I even remotely like is Gary Johnson, but he's got no chance in hell in winning.

We need a candidate who can:

- Get the republican nominee
- Beat Obama
- Has plans to reduce our militarism throughout the world, bringing our troops home(have you noticed the amount of contractors replacing soldiers?)
- Will balance the federal budget and get this economy back on track
- Will audit the federal reserve and make them accountable for their actions

I agree with a lot of what Ron Paul stands for, but my only problems with him are regarding people who choose not to have healthcare insurance that are in dire need of medical attention. But, he is also for alternative medicine being practiced in the US, which means a big blow to the pharmaceutical industry. I also don't like how he doesn't accept the theory of evolution. I think that will deter some younger people from voting for him. But, to me, that's not what is important at this time. We can't start being the best in science and technology if we are bankrupt as a country. We need to get out of that mess before we even begin trying to play catch up with the rest of the world.

With all that said, I think he is the only candidate that could pull it off. Mitt Romney is a bad choice if we want another business as usual president. Rick Perry is like a dumber version of Bush if you can even imagine that. Fuckin' Michelle Bachman, I swear if I hear her babble on about Obamacare one more time, I'm going to go insane. Herman Cain's 9 9 9 plan, which is pretty much the only thing going for him is good in theory, but as it is now, a lot of Americans pay 0% sales tax and I think 1 or 2 states where people don't pay income tax. This would be a large tax increase for those states. While the plan would help me, only increasing my sales tax from 8.71% to 9% and decreasing my income tax from ~15% to 9%, I think this plan will be counter-productive to our economy. He's already changed the plan to 9 0 9 for poor citizens. The only candidate running a consistent, honest campaign is Ron Paul.

[Iggy]

Someone, a few years back, came up with the idea of getting rid of the Income Tax, in favor of a national Sales Tax. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing this. No one could argue that the rich aren't being "ripped off" because they are successful. You'd be taxed on what you spend, and realistically, people would have more to spend. That would stimulate the economy, I think. Only food should be exempt from this, because it's a straight up necessity. Prepared food, is a different story, though.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Someone, a few years back, came up with the idea of getting rid of the Income Tax, in favor of a national Sales Tax. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing this. No one could argue that the rich aren't being "ripped off" because they are successful. You'd be taxed on what you spend, and realistically, people would have more to spend. That would stimulate the economy, I think. Only food should be exempt from this, because it's a straight up necessity. Prepared food, is a different story, though.

My only concern with this is the tendency of the wealthy to find ways around this. Or ultimately buying less as a sort of boycott. These are things they tend to do when they don't get their way. Which right now is their right, and it's legal. They have more money so they have that extra power. But in a functioning society we really need to find a way to curb the amount of power they get away from preventing the middle class from growing.

In terms of taxes, I don't think there is an easy solution sadly. The problem is that we only want them when we have a problem, and then that turn of power can grow too much. I thought I would have some sort of solution by the time I got here... but I don't and it's time for work. Be back on later.

[Innoc]

I'll bet the worthless shits in DC find a way to agree on balancing the budget if we start taxing all political donations 1% for every Billion dollars of deficit spending that happens on their watch...

Fact is you can't balance the budget on the backs of the rich. The irresponsible children in DC spend far more than can be made up in class warfare taxation. Cut the spending.

[Iggy]

I actually like that idea.... however, they would probably figure out a way to avoid even those taxes like they do others.

While I agree that spending should be cut, I have a feeling we might disagree on where those cuts should take place. I, for one, would be all for cutting foreign aid, in many places. Particularly to places where the "aid" doesn't reach the people it's supposed to.

[Innoc]

I'm not particularly in love with Foreign Aid spending. I could see most of it go. However...lets be real here. Foreign Aid is a mosquito on the ass of the elephant that's bankrupting us. Social spending is the single largest area of spending. Nothing else comes close.

[BinaryLife]

I think what we need a combination of increased taxes and cuts in spending. What I find frustrating is that instead of compromising to this happy medium neither side is giving in at all.

The whole point of a two party system is to keep different perspectives in the white house. Not bicker like they have been. Raising taxes is only part of the battle. You're right if that's all we did, then all it would do is cripple us. We need to also cut some programs, and there are certainly plenty of programs in the government that can be trimmed, cut and re structured without any negative impact.

If we just cut those programs, however, we still wouldn't have a solution as there is just too much money going out, and limiting it will not compensate for that deficit.

The democrats need to let go of this chip on their shoulders, and this desire to control top down. The republicans need to open their minds some more. Somewhere, they'll meet. Most importantly, they need to realize that people of this country are working together every day regardless of political focus.

[KubeDawg]

Well what do we need more? Foreign Aid or Military in Foreign lands? Why do we feel we need to police the world?

[BinaryLife]

Actually right now I think the country needs to lock itself in a bit. We cant afford to police the world reguardless of where you stand. I think it's selfish considering the damage we did but I wouldn't be against pulling our troops out of all other countries. I don't fully understand the economic impact that would have. If it saves American lives, and amerocan dollars it has my vote... Can't see it happening though.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

Well what do we need more? Foreign Aid or Military in Foreign lands? Why do we feel we need to police the world?

Politics is nearly always about building power and control. Surely you can see this drive reflected in our domestic and international policy? Even power imparted through a key economic or diplomatic effort helps to build or maintain power. Frankly its out of control.

@BinaryLife: what you're describing sounds a bit like isolationism along with austerity measures....or am I reading your post incorrectly?

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by Innoc

@BinaryLife: what you're describing sounds a bit like isolationism along with austerity measures....or am I reading your post incorrectly?

No, you are reading it correctly. I feel like we have reached a point, financially, where we can't be out helping the rest of the world. I see a long term important in maintaining stability in other regions, as their economy and political situations can effect us. However, as we spread ourselves thin it appears that the help we are offering is less and less helpful. It also seems to be damaging our own economy. If it were feasible to temporarily focus on just our own selves we need to do that until we can stabilize.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

No, you are reading it correctly. I feel like we have reached a point, financially, where we can't be out helping the rest of the world. I see a long term important in maintaining stability in other regions, as their economy and political situations can effect us. However, as we spread ourselves thin it appears that the help we are offering is less and less helpful. It also seems to be damaging our own economy. If it were feasible to temporarily focus on just our own selves we need to do that until we can stabilize.

I think the longer we wait to move towards austerity to correct things the more we risk violent reactions like what's been seen in Europe. The sooner we do this the better off we'll be long term.

[BinaryLife]

Are there any presidents running with this kind of mentality? If you want to run on a platform of change I think this satisfies that criteria.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by Innoc

Politics is nearly always about building power and control. Surely you can see this drive reflected in our domestic and international policy? Even power imparted through a key economic or diplomatic effort helps to build or maintain power. Frankly its out of control.

QFMFT!!!

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

Are there any presidents running with this kind of mentality? If you want to run on a platform of change I think this satisfies that criteria.

Closest I think is Ron Paul and he has ALL of the media trying to show him as a straight-jacket candidate. Anyway most of America wants austerity so long as it has no impact on them.