How to make people pay for their failures?

[battery]

Successful people believe failure is nothing but a feedback mechanism. If you try something and it doesn't work, learn from it, and only then do you try again. You must be able to not only take action continuously, but also figure out what is working and what is not. Each time you fail, you will gain experience and the more experience you gain, the better you can strategize your next move and increase your chance of success.

Make sense, does it not? I can't help but to agree, because I go through such cycles myself. I am not a prodigy. I get good at things through experience and failures.

If everyone thinks like this, and act like this....

You will probably pull your hair out!

The problem with this approach to life is that other people have to share consequences of your failures all the times, consensually or otherwise. Yes, losers and noobs get better and better eventually. But it really irks me to see that, through "collegial damage", I am paying the costs of their life lessons.

This is the second time I am getting myself a new boss due to an excess of "noobs" among my coworkers. Now, working with noobs is bearable, but having a boss who encourages noobs to learn all they can by taking "risks" definitely frustrates the more experienced professionals; We have to clean up their mess while they engage in even more "risks". For goodness' sake! A risk is really not a risk if one doesn't pay shit for the potential failure.

Replace those workplace noobs with my friends and members of my family, I would be more than happy to absorb all the shit just to keep their morale high. I see this as my duty. But doing this for random 25-year-olds graduated from mediocre colleges? No thanks! I don't see the genius in them. I think they should focus on learning from other people's mistakes in order to learn how to delivery quality works to the company.
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[Bridget]

People wipe your ass too, Battery. Get off your high horse and deal with it.

[Crazycarl]

There are standards for every occupation and if they don't meet those standards it should be pointed out to them. If you have to pick up their slack they should know about it, too. Your boss should keep this in mind when it's time for raises and promotions.

If the "noobs" are truly clueless about what's going on, they won't learn a thing, except how to squeak by without improvement.

[Iggy]

At the company I work for, when new people are brought in(usually seasonal, with a potential for permanent positions)... it is the job of those full timers they are placed with, to see to it they are properly trained. If they can't grasp the simplest concepts, they are quickly replaced.

Realistically speaking, it is the job of whomever is training these new people in what their job is, to make sure they at least have an idea of what works and what doesn't.

[battery]

It is difficult to train a bank loan officer through lectures and textbooks. The decision to approve loan to small business is always a judgement call. The officer must know all the clever tricks employed by entrepreneurs to make their proposals and balance sheets appear rock solid. To be honest, newbies are almost always fooled since they are stright out of school. They don't know about the hardship of running a business, and hence the many desperate measures to acquire capital. People kinda need to fuck up a few times to learn the nature of the game.

The fresh graduates newbies aren't stupid. About 50% of them won't make it past second year and they are very well aware of that. When it becomes clear that an officer won't meet profit quota, he typically switches to "reckless lender mode". If you are gonna be dismissed end of next year, why not take risky gambles? If you are lucky, the risky loans won't default and you will get to keep your job. Otherwise, you meet a few more clients and referals, and a few tales to amuse your friends. (Haha! I lended a million to this golf course owned by two Japanese women. Turns out they didn't know how to run the place and it went belly-up in 6 months. Oh well, shit happens and it's not my $ anyway, blah blah).

Me? I just have to work extra hard because my boss needs someone to make up for the loss. His little empire has to meet quota too, and middle-class slaves like me have to cover for the lower-class screw-ups. Think social welfare. Contacts don't grow on trees! Healthy business are even harder to find.

What a great system!
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[Etzell]

Originally Posted by battery

(Haha! I lended a million to this golf course owned by two Japanese women. Turns out they didn't know how to run the place and it went belly-up in 6 months. Oh well, shit happens and it's not my $ anyway, blah blah).

Someone should've made you pay for your failure. You were just as bad as they are, and the fact that you don't realize it makes you an ass. You can't get out of school with real-world job experience, perhaps it'd be a good idea to suggest to your boss that one of the "pros" like you shadows them. That's what I used to do as a mechanical engineering intern. I did my work, but before we implemented anything, I had two co-workers go over it with a fine-toothed comb, and then submitted it to my boss. Did it take a bit longer? Sure. Did it keep me from looking like a dumbfuck in front of my boss? Usually.

[Crazycarl]

Well that makes perfect sense from his point of view. You are his low-risk investment that cushions his high-risk ventures. Anyway, if you're so good at what you do you should be able to find a better position for yourself.

[Innoc]

Though a cliche I think there is much truth in the old expression "you learn more from your failures that you do from your success."

If you aren't figuring it out from your failures then perhaps you need to change who you seek out as your mentor in your endeavor.

[stray kitten]

Bank loan officer...

That says it all.

[battery]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

Bank loan officer...

That says it all.

No, I am not one of those assholes officers who handle home mortgages. And if you think they are sub-human, it is only because the bank really has no $ to lend out.
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[stray kitten]

I am not a national socialist who believe banks and the people who work for them are evil. In fact the current economic situation has nothing to do with my joke. It's more along these lines....

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[AfterShock]

Seems to me that the obvious problem is the system which is actively encouraging underperforming staff to take stupid risks to avoid redundancy. (i.e. basing peformance on results alone rather than the stupid risks they take).

If someone takes a stupid risk they should be fired, whether the risk pays off or not. If a system was in place for that, then you wouldnt have people taking stupid risks to balance their books.

[battery]

I have been dreaming of a personal career record system to retain and forward job performance data for every individual. Similar to an academic transcript, this job performance record sticks with a person until he bites the dust. Employers have the opportunity to document any unprofessional conducts or gross neglience before firing an employee. I believe this system may prevent reckless risk-taking, because the consequences goes beyond losing one job. It has the potential to ruin one's career permanently. If the employee is not insane, he will try his best to repair whatever mistakes he has made that earned him a recommendation for dismissal.

I know this may sound Draconian. But think about the Credit Bureau! Imagine the crazy things that can happen if borrowers aren't held accountable. Even though credit history sticks around for 7 long years, the 20-something's are already flipping houses like drunken gamblers. Wait seven years and start over, right?
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[Iggy]

The problem with that methodology, is that you could encounter a supervisor who simply doesn't like you, is jealous of your abilities, or one of those power-hungry douchebags who enjoys fucking over other people. I've encountered all three of those in my life. Sad thing is, there are more of them out there than there are decent employers. You also have the risk of someone taking credit for your hard work, and leaving you with an undeserved bad reputation.

[stray kitten]

One of the factors to a slow recovery is a swing to the other end of the spectrum. No one is taking any risk. There is plenty of capitol to go around and even Obama is firing up his beat box and bashing "banks" for not lending money. If a request for credit falls outside of conservative risk factors, the loan is denied. It's that simple, there is no negotiation or consideration of other compensating factors. This approach is one of my continual life long criticisms of the US Federal government. They are inefficient in almost every venture because they do a horrible job of managing risk. In fact they already have a system in place similar to that suggested by battery, thats why there is more CYA than progress. Managing risk is where we get terms such as "diversify" and "hedging".

They exist because no one can ever guarantee anything. An 800 fico borrower with 1 million in the bank can default. So can the dude who has owned a profitable business for 20 years. He/She is just more unlikely too when compared to a white trash pot smoking alcoholic jobless fat Mcdonalds eating bitch with 2 white kids and 3 black kids from 3 different fathers who votes "progressive" and wants a cash out refi on her manufactured home.

She's been eying 2 $1500.00 a piece purebread AKC registered Pit Bulls.

[battery]

Originally Posted by Iggy

The problem with that methodology, is that you could encounter a supervisor who simply doesn't like you, is jealous of your abilities, or one of those power-hungry douchebags who enjoys fucking over other people. I've encountered all three of those in my life. Sad thing is, there are more of them out there than there are decent employers. You also have the risk of someone taking credit for your hard work, and leaving you with an undeserved bad reputation.

I envision a computer database system where employers can submit various documents to corroborate their assessments on their employees. Similarly, employees are allowed to present their own story from the database system, or during a job interview. So we have a record system based on paper evidence, not just opinions.

Two side benefits arises from adoption of this database system. First, it encourages employees, as well as employers, to document everything they do at work. Many people are too lazy to speak up annd leave paper trails, making it easy for douchebags to take credit for the work. Second, the system may breed a new kind of workers who are adroit at the art of persuasion. Successful job candidate will be the group who put up a beautiful presentation countering the bad comments from their former bosses. Let's me honest. Don't you prefer to work with people who can speak well, as opposed to workers who are only good at doing technical work? Don't get me wrong. Being technically competent is essential. But as our society advances, we must raise our expectation from our workforce. We want high-quality workers who can talk, do technical work, speak multiple languages, maintain physical fitness, have high moral standards. This is the only way to escape competition with the lowly-paid techical workers from China and India!.
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[Innoc]

Originally Posted by stray kitten

One of the factors to a slow recovery is a swing to the other end of the spectrum. No one is taking any risk. There is plenty of capitol to go around and even Obama is firing up his beat box and bashing "banks" for not lending money. If a request for credit falls outside of conservative risk factors, the loan is denied. It's that simple, there is no negotiation or consideration of other compensating factors. This approach is one of my continual life long criticisms of the US Federal government. They are inefficient in almost every venture because they do a horrible job of managing risk. In fact they already have a system in place similar to that suggested by battery, thats why there is more CYA than progress. Managing risk is where we get terms such as "diversify" and "hedging".

They exist because no one can ever guarantee anything. An 800 fico borrower with 1 million in the bank can default. So can the dude who has owned a profitable business for 20 years. He/She is just more unlikely too when compared to a white trash pot smoking alcoholic jobless fat Mcdonalds eating bitch with 2 white kids and 3 black kids from 3 different fathers who votes "progressive" and wants a cash out refi on her manufactured home.

She's been eying 2 $1500.00 a piece purebread AKC registered Pit Bulls.

My wife and I each have homes we owned prior to marrying. Neither house can be sold as the current market value is below the loan. We are renting the homes to tenants until such time as the market changes. When we explored buying another home for ourselves FHA and VA underwriters for both programs disallowed the use of rental income to offset the mortgages for the existing homes. Additionally the underwriters required that 6 months of cash reserves be on hand for each and every mortgage including the new one. On top of that IRA, Stocks and other assets could not be used to satisfy those reserve requirements. In our case we're talking somewhere around 70K....just sitting liquid. The track record of rental history, responsible financial behavior by both of us do not matter. This is the result of the new "buy and bail" policies that have gone into place. Like Stray Kitten said...they've gone from ridiculously loose to ridiculously tight.

So, how did we buy our new home? I ended up taking advantage of a benefit I never intended to use...in the 20 years since I completed my enlistment I've never even thought of my VA benefits. VA is the only mainstream home lending program whose underwriting policy does not include a buy and bail provision. I hear that it's coming....but it's not here now.

Bad policy and implementation replacing bad policy and implementation. Frankly I think the real problem is we continue to place career politicians in the highest offices in the land. Even those who claim expertise that makes them suited for a committee appear to have no useful impact on the direction of policy.

Failure is an opportunity for learning. Whether a bank or the Congress...any process that insulates the subject from it's failures is a bad process.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by battery

I envision a computer database system where employers can submit various documents to corroborate their assessments on their employees. Similarly, employees are allowed to present their own story from the database system, or during a job interview. So we have a record system based on paper evidence, not just opinions.

Are you talking about a Gov't controlled process? If so I think that's a bad idea.

I've had crappy supervisors who tried to take credit for my accomplishments. They did not succeed. I control my destiny and I do not permit people like that to hold me back....period.

[stray kitten]

Originally Posted by Innoc

My wife and I each have homes we owned prior to marrying. Neither house can be sold as the current market value is below the loan. We are renting the homes to tenants until such time as the market changes. When we explored buying another home for ourselves FHA and VA underwriters for both programs disallowed the use of rental income to offset the mortgages for the existing homes. Additionally the underwriters required that 6 months of cash reserves be on hand for each and every mortgage including the new one. On top of that IRA, Stocks and other assets could not be used to satisfy those reserve requirements. In our case we're talking somewhere around 70K....just sitting liquid. The track record of rental history, responsible financial behavior by both of us do not matter. This is the result of the new "buy and bail" policies that have gone into place. Like Stray Kitten said...they've gone from ridiculously loose to ridiculously tight.

So, how did we buy our new home? I ended up taking advantage of a benefit I never intended to use...in the 20 years since I completed my enlistment I've never even thought of my VA benefits. VA is the only mainstream home lending program whose underwriting policy does not include a buy and bail provision. I hear that it's coming....but it's not here now.

Bad policy and implementation replacing bad policy and implementation. Frankly I think the real problem is we continue to place career politicians in the highest offices in the land. Even those who claim expertise that makes them suited for a committee appear to have no useful impact on the direction of policy.

Failure is an opportunity for learning. Whether a bank or the Congress...any process that insulates the subject from it's failures is a bad process.

When it becomes difficult to buy a mortgage on the "open" market, that VA benefit really comes to light. Back when mortgages were 14 percent people joined the military just to get it. In the current environment you, a normally solid borrower are now considered a "toxic asset" even if your loan is performing.

I would just like to refi my house. I am Joe the Plumber or Mr. Main Street in a fairly high interest rate loan by todays standard. However. since I am middle class, I cannot qualify because of the loan-to-value ratio and all the bail out plans or loan modification Obama plans are outside my reach. No bank is going to refinance a "toxic asset" even though I have never been late on this mortgage payment in my life. It's frustrating.

Here is how the federal government works, right now through legislation it is financially BETTER for me to stop making my loan payment for 6 months, start crying and wine a little to some gov peeps, then get a loan modification that will save me thousands a year. Too bad I still have some digity. Dignity costs a person a lot of money these days.