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Old 05-12-2007, 08:47 PM   #1
nex nicholai
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1UP TF2 Vid

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/11420

Good part: Some of the community's concerns are finally expressed in a review.

Bad part: The guy who's expressing them didnt play the game.

Not to say that the TFC shown in the vid is anything more than low level pub play. Just goes to show that the current level of play was created by the community and not by valve. So its only fitting that the community will be providing the next generation of that kind of play (FF) and valve will be focusing on the pubs and the xbox players.

BTW just saw that it was discussed in the main TF2 thread my apologies. Remove thread if needed.

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Old 05-12-2007, 10:33 PM   #2
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My connection is awful tonight and the video is is loading at a snails pace, I'll watch fully later.

I think loosing the grenades is their best decision yet. 65% of the time on pubs I die from grenades and 20% of the time ones that weren't intended for me.

Like most games now It's attracting a lot of very young people which is a the only downer.
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Old 05-12-2007, 10:43 PM   #3
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Remember, "the community" he represents is only a very small portion of top level players. While important to recognize and work with, they can't be your only concern, or your game breaks under its own weight.

I'm still happy with all their decisions so far, minus the invulnerability thing with the medic. In my experience, designing something that keeps people alive too long or disallows a response is bad for a game.

I think TF2's departure from the originals is a very good thing for FF, because they're not really competing on the same front anymore. The old style Fortress games are great for a lot of reasons, but ultimately need something new and fresh. I think the worst decision Valve could have made was if they'd gotten schizophrenic in their design, by trying to make TFC again and then adding and changing a bunch on things. In TF2, there's no disillusions that it -is- a new game with new play, while in FF, you can be secure in knowing classic play is maintained. Couldn't be a better situation for Fortress players.
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Old 05-12-2007, 11:06 PM   #4
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That video makes the game seem like such a shitty thing to play. Seriously... No more grenades? What the fuck gave them that idea? "Oh we thought new players had a hard time around people who use grenades, they were such an overused item.. blah blah blah" Seriously, thats retarded. Grenades seperated good players from bad players, as well as grenades are just flat out used in war/wargames.

I can't wait to run around and laugh at all the SILLY character models and chuckle at the crazy antics all around. It's gonna be awesome, just as awesome as how the medic can't infect anymore.

Oh boy Valve, thank you for giving us the VALVE experience, you fucking douchebags.

I have to ask seriously, do any O.T guild members work in valve and have been helping with that project? The amount of nerf they want doesn't feel sane.

Either way though, score one for us... FF will hit harder being as it is old TF2 and still fun.
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Old 05-12-2007, 11:13 PM   #5
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You only need grenades because the opponent has them.

Throwing a grenade(s) in weakness compared to taking someone out with a weapon accurately, how does that separate the good from the bad?
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Old 05-13-2007, 12:04 AM   #6
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TFC grenades are freaking annoying, which is why I find 2(scouts) vs 2(sols - no frag nades) great fun.


That said, some bits of TF2 look awesome, but invincibilty? Erk.
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:00 AM   #7
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I'd voice an opinion but sadly... i haven't played the game yet.
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zencheetah
I have to ask seriously, do any O.T guild members work in valve and have been helping with that project? The amount of nerf they want doesn't feel sane.
nice one.
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite307
I'd voice an opinion but sadly... i haven't played the game yet.
QFT
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suite307
I'd voice an opinion but sadly... i haven't played the game yet.
This statement is just ridiculous. As I have said before, I do not want to have to buy a game to have an opinion on whether or not I should buy a game. The point of press releases, previews, interviews, etc. is for the consumers to form opinions on whether or not they would like the game enough to buy it.
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:18 AM   #11
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As one of those "Dustbowl-only" TFC players, I'll be happy to see nades go. That entire map revolves around nades: demo MIRV runs, offense mindlessly charging with nades, spies nade jumping. It will be interesting to see how A/D plays without nades, given how important they are in TFC...
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:19 AM   #12
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Um, thats not what he was saying. He was saying that he doesnt want to base his opinion on something he hasn't played yet. Frankly, I agree with him too. As for what you said, thats the point of free weekends and demos.
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:22 AM   #13
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a/d Is going to be, well, retarded. The only reason O even breaks out of the pits is because of nades. It's going to be impossible for offense to attack.
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Old 05-13-2007, 04:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMpi
a/d Is going to be, well, retarded. The only reason O even breaks out of the pits is because of nades. It's going to be impossible for offense to attack.

Have they even mentioned having ANY A/D maps? They've mentioned CTF in 2fort, which was designed before they realized they wanted to make command point maps. Do they have any intention of supporting A/D?

Yes, they have stated that Dustbowl is being redone..... but have they mention what play style it is?
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:14 AM   #15
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People will just start making A/D maps shortly after it comes out. Unless Valve doesn't include the necessary tools to make those maps, which would be insane.

As for this being good news for FF, I don't see how. TF2 is going to get exposure on a huge scale through Steam, but FF can only get exposure through word of mouth and websites. For the common player who doesn't browse gaming sites like this the game of choice will likely be TF2 (because the ads will be right in their face when they start Steam). I think the only way this is good news for FF is if the game is released a few months before TF2 comes out and gaming sites go crazy for it. FF would need a preexisting user base to overcome Valve stonewalling (have they ever even mentioned FF like they have with other community mods?)

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Old 05-13-2007, 06:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zencheetah
That video makes the game seem like such a shitty thing to play. Seriously... No more grenades? What the fuck gave them that idea? "Oh we thought new players had a hard time around people who use grenades, they were such an overused item.. blah blah blah" Seriously, thats retarded. Grenades seperated good players from bad players, as well as grenades are just flat out used in war/wargames.

I can't wait to run around and laugh at all the SILLY character models and chuckle at the crazy antics all around. It's gonna be awesome, just as awesome as how the medic can't infect anymore.

Oh boy Valve, thank you for giving us the VALVE experience, you fucking douchebags.

I have to ask seriously, do any O.T guild members work in valve and have been helping with that project? The amount of nerf they want doesn't feel sane.

Either way though, score one for us... FF will hit harder being as it is old TF2 and still fun.
Way to be short-sighted and provide terrible feedback by not providing reasoning and just posting on emotion.

Some people have discussed why grenades add to the game (there's some valid points in there), what they don't like about the changes, and why they want a more true-to-form experience. That's called -constructive- feedback that actually sparks discussion. Posting "WOW I HATE THIS" is a waste of internet text.

In fact, Robin Walker's assessment of grenades is true -- it's the argument for taking them out. It's valid, and the direction they went with. If you disagree with this or don't like it, state why, talk about what grenades do to improve the game, why sacrificing accessibility and cleaner mechanics is worth retaining grenades. For example, Dospac is the designer of FF for a reason -- because unlike most internet clods, he knows what he's talking about. Design is not a series of easy decisions, there's a lot more going on in the process than you see.

Neither FF nor TF2 is wrong in their direction -- they're just different. So instead of cutting yourself and listening to The Cure when "Valve has betrayed you!!!" just don't play the damned game, or if you want to discuss it, act like a goddamned adult.

It's posts like that that make developers not listen to player feedback.
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Old 05-13-2007, 06:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by AmazingNurseEnrique
So instead of cutting yourself and listening to The Cure when "Valve has betrayed you!!!" just don't play the damned game, or if you want to discuss it,


'''''''''act like a goddamned adult.''''''''
Don't lecture me, ever. Thanks.

For one, I wasn't exactly thrilled with the fact that grenades were going to be taken out. Seeing as how the grenades provide the experience that is in fact, Team Fortress Classic. You remember that fast paced game where you need to capture the flag? Remember how grenades helped you get to that objective by helping with movement and getting to high ledges, let alone clearing a room before entering it. Setting traps with grenades was also important, and was vital to some defenses.

Team Fortress 2 looks like it was thrown together quickly after they caught wind of FF or something else that could take money from Valve. Those graphics are absolutely horrid, also failed attempt at faking cell shading. Well maybe not failed, but a poor alternative. I don't want cute characters that dance and other bullshit, I want a competitive fast paced game with extreme skill differences between players. I don't want to see things taken out of a game that was once good because it may make it easier on new players or that they just flat out didn't like it, and being a large gaming company, only wanting the money. Don't you see, TFC wasn't even theirs.. they bought it and the license and now are going to ruin it with this "The Incredibles Fortress 2"

I think instead of acting like a stuck up bitch with valves cock in your mouth, you should take it out and understand where I'm coming from.

On the side note, I'm really happy that FF exists, and DEVS, you're doing a wonderful job. Keep it up.
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Old 05-13-2007, 07:03 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingNurseEnrique
The Cure
Holy Robert Smith batman!!

Are you like, 35?

Nowadays, the kids cut themselves to like, Husker Du and Sunny Day Real Estate...

Oh wait no, that was 10-15 years ago

Now they cut themselves to Bright Eyes, My Chemical Romance and Coheed And *retch gag puke* Cambria
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Old 05-13-2007, 08:40 AM   #19
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I approve of removing nades, tbh

re: "Grenades seperated good players from bad players"
yes they do, good players don't use nades, while bad players spam them everywhere
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Old 05-13-2007, 09:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zencheetah
Don't lecture me, ever. Thanks.

For one, I wasn't exactly thrilled with the fact that grenades were going to be taken out. Seeing as how the grenades provide the experience that is in fact, Team Fortress Classic. You remember that fast paced game where you need to capture the flag? Remember how grenades helped you get to that objective by helping with movement and getting to high ledges, let alone clearing a room before entering it. Setting traps with grenades was also important, and was vital to some defenses.

Team Fortress 2 looks like it was thrown together quickly after they caught wind of FF or something else that could take money from Valve. Those graphics are absolutely horrid, also failed attempt at faking cell shading. Well maybe not failed, but a poor alternative. I don't want cute characters that dance and other bullshit, I want a competitive fast paced game with extreme skill differences between players. I don't want to see things taken out of a game that was once good because it may make it easier on new players or that they just flat out didn't like it, and being a large gaming company, only wanting the money. Don't you see, TFC wasn't even theirs.. they bought it and the license and now are going to ruin it with this "The Incredibles Fortress 2"

I think instead of acting like a stuck up bitch with valves cock in your mouth, you should take it out and understand where I'm coming from.

On the side note, I'm really happy that FF exists, and DEVS, you're doing a wonderful job. Keep it up.
You're not doing a good job of discouraging my asshole lecture. That feedback was pretty good, even if your insults need work.

For the record, I -am- a professional game developer (no, not for Valve), so I do know what is good and bad feedback. It's good when things are posted logically instead of emotionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycnet
Holy Robert Smith batman!!

Are you like, 35?

Nowadays, the kids cut themselves to like, Husker Du and Sunny Day Real Estate...

Oh wait no, that was 10-15 years ago

Now they cut themselves to Bright Eyes, My Chemical Romance and Coheed And *retch gag puke* Cambria
Damn kids! In MY day, you had to walk uphill 12 miles in the snow both ways to get a decent razorblade *rabble rabble*

I'm almost 30, so you caught me :P
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