Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Editing > Mapping > Maps

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2014, 12:40 AM   #1
Uly
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
ff spaceship

New AvD style map... in space!

download @ http://www.turtleheadz.com/downloads..._spaceship.rar


Tx to Headzy for mentoring and quick release wheel mechanisms & vid..
credit to whoever made the space skybox and any other custom textures used..
shout to the FF crew and mr.squeek

Peace

Last edited by Uly; 03-01-2014 at 12:13 AM.
Uly is offline   Reply With Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 02-28-2014, 02:42 AM   #2
aleXtric
#FF.Pickup Dictator
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit
Gametype: ADL
Affiliations: KiNGz .
Posts Rated Helpful 100 Times
wtf is this.............................................. .................................................. ..
__________________
!add
#FF.Pickup - Quakenet

http://www.ffpickup.com/?p=irc
aleXtric is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-28-2014, 08:32 AM   #3
ddm999
worst ff player eu
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Yorks., England
Class/Position: o - no, d - scout
Gametype: IvDZ
Posts Rated Helpful 18 Times
It's a good concept, but not really self explanatory.
Yeah, sure it's a spaceship, but that's not what I meant.

I mean WHY ARE THERE NO SIGNS I GET SO LOST EVEN WHEN IM NOT PLAYING IT AS A REAL MAP

First of all, the gate. Why the balls is it so slow? I swear it's not even the default speed of 100, but it's even slower... default speed on a door = 100 = 100 hammer units / second. It's about 196 tall. 1.75 / 2 seconds with default speed. I swear it takes like a billion years. Ain't nobody got time for dat.

Cap 1 seems alright (apart from the thousand white lights that ruin your eyes), and the random holes that no-one understands - just get rid of the grate, you don't even have a template setup to replace it on next round - and boom, they've accidently gotten to Cap 3.

(And I hate that little chair that gets in the way in Attacker Spawn. - Oh, and please just put Defender Spawns on the floor. Not on that platform where you run into everything while you're spawning. Please?)

Cap 2 is OK as well, but now we get to the clusterfuck that is Caps 3 and 4.

Cap 3 involves either pulling off a beast conc, or using a small platform that you'll almost always get killed from. Seriously. WTF.

Cap 4 involves going backwards to Cap 2 to get the flag, then either going backwards again and going through Cap 3 to get to Cap 4 through water and a small elevator, or through some path with a weird teleporter that likes to get you stuck teleporting between two places because the tp destination is inside the teleporters (seriously, did you even test this map in-game)

Those lasers on Cap 4. I get it, they look cool. But do they have to hurt you? Even when you're defending? Really? Especially the roof lasers that like to kill you just for bunnyhopping to the cap?

Oh, please, please, please don't use the fucking FF logo as a solid wall because weird as it seems, it's quite annoying that there's invisible walls everywhere. Use textures that are fully visible for walls? Please?

Sure, it might be nice to have alternative routes, but really? You have to backtrack a cap to use them, and there's so little defense in them that there's no point of them existing.

And seriously, get rid of the route to Cap 4 from Cap 2, and make a real route from Cap 3 to Cap 4 that means it's not so damn confusing because everyone can use linear paths.

This ain't an RPG, so I don't give a shit about alternative routes.
__________________
gg ff not ded
ff very much alive

Last edited by ddm999; 02-28-2014 at 08:33 AM.
ddm999 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-28-2014, 08:58 PM   #4
Headz
 
Headz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: England
Posts Rated Helpful 81 Times
did you two wake up with sticky ass cheeks this morning.

I played it with 9 others and was fun, played well when people got used to the layout.

You don't conc cp3, you rjump it like any regular avd'er would.
__________________
Compile error:
Leaf portal saw into Cluster Phuck

Last edited by Headz; 02-28-2014 at 08:59 PM.
Headz is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-01-2014, 05:08 AM   #5
the_cake
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts Rated Helpful 144 Times
I had fun playing it. I was utterly lost at first with all the weird secondary routes but I found my way around eventually. The layout is pretty crazy which I like, I find avd is pretty forgiving for unusual layouts. I felt like there were only about 4 people who knew where they were going when I played, I'd like to see how it plays when half of the server isn't lost.

Last edited by the_cake; 03-01-2014 at 05:09 AM.
the_cake is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-01-2014, 07:18 PM   #6
ddm999
worst ff player eu
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Yorks., England
Class/Position: o - no, d - scout
Gametype: IvDZ
Posts Rated Helpful 18 Times
Hey, I know my maps are shit and I'll admit they are.

The fact no-one told me why they suck and just said 'lol shit' means I have nothing to work with to improve them. Sorry about the fact that post was mainly bullshit and moaning but I had like 5 minutes to write it and I'd got up about an hour ago. (and i find it really hard to try and not just criticize maps really harshly)

I just prefer maps that are easy to work with and learn, rather than strange things where you can't just jump in and play (but let's be honest, it's a map for FF, which isn't very noob friendly in general).

I know about mapping, because I've worked with Hammer for the best part of the last 4 years. I just completely suck at fucking making stuff that plays well in any game / mod ever. I admit, it really fucking annoys me.

Doesn't stop me from being able to leave comments about other maps.

(not like avanti_ctf had any invisible walls that seemed like you can shoot through in it)
(fuckin burn want some water bitch get rekd)
__________________
gg ff not ded
ff very much alive

Last edited by ddm999; 03-01-2014 at 07:18 PM.
ddm999 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-01-2014, 07:52 PM   #7
Brass
BABIES!
 
Brass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Enemy Base
Class/Position: O
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Affiliations: [FPS]
Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times
Send a message via MSN to Brass
Wtf. A map release for FF? Good job man, the critique doesn't really matter all that much (but it is a bonus when the map is seen as good) when you're directly contributing . I don't play anymore, but gj.

Last edited by Brass; 03-01-2014 at 07:52 PM.
Brass is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-01-2014, 11:17 PM   #8
aleXtric
#FF.Pickup Dictator
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit
Gametype: ADL
Affiliations: KiNGz .
Posts Rated Helpful 100 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm999 View Post
Hey, I know my maps are shit and I'll admit they are.

The fact no-one told me why they suck and just said 'lol shit' means I have nothing to work with to improve them. Sorry about the fact that post was mainly bullshit and moaning but I had like 5 minutes to write it and I'd got up about an hour ago. (and i find it really hard to try and not just criticize maps really harshly)
You're one map was legit, the racing one. But ff_avanti_ctf was such a pile of shit because it literally makes no sense, has no flow, and your video which you performed skills in was laughable. The map looked copied and pasted and wasn't original at all. Your original map the racing one was cool because you created it from scratch and were creative. We played it a lot and it didn't even have any texturing at all. So imagine if you made something and put a little effort into design.

For this map "ff_spaceship", the texturing is great. I love the look and feel, but the layout is nearly logicless in my opinion. I looked at it and instantly thought "this was made by someone with no game sense, or knowledge on how AvD or even FF mechanics work." It reminds me of anticitizen, the map is basically unplayable (if you're trying to have fun).

Sometimes different isn't better, you should have been studying layouts of TFC AvD maps like cmhf, pdh_r, baconbowl, osaka, magelli, etc.

You obviously have skills when it comes to hammer, but it'd be nice if you made something more down to earth. Pun intended.

I'm a huge fan of AvD. So please try again. Or remake a TFC map
__________________
!add
#FF.Pickup - Quakenet

http://www.ffpickup.com/?p=irc

Last edited by aleXtric; 03-01-2014 at 11:19 PM.
aleXtric is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-02-2014, 11:21 AM   #9
ddm999
worst ff player eu
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Yorks., England
Class/Position: o - no, d - scout
Gametype: IvDZ
Posts Rated Helpful 18 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleXtric View Post
So imagine if you made something and put a little effort into design.
Which is what leads to all the shit maps I make.

I have made around 80+ maps, properly textured, which I just delete because they play like shit or are way too small because I still suck at getting sizing correct.
It takes me at least 12 hours a day to make 1 of these.

I've tried to make at least 3 more race maps. None of them work because they're too small and badly made. ff_bhoprace_lines was pure fucking luck.

(and no-one even seems to have seen the 3 days of work I put into making a race lua for every default CTF map)

A full month and a half, down the drain in the past 4 years. (Well, 2 years, because although I've used Hammer for 4 years, I've not mapped for FF that long.) How do you think that makes me feel?

Except all those 50+ maps weren't CTF. CTF maps take 12 hours.
IvD maps on the other hand take 20+ hours.
CP maps take 30+ hours.

So, not just a month, but around 3 months.

In fact, I make so many maps that I can never find the ones I haven't finished. It'd probably be a waste of time to finish them because they'll just get deleted too, though.
__________________
gg ff not ded
ff very much alive

Last edited by ddm999; 03-02-2014 at 11:45 AM.
ddm999 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-02-2014, 03:02 PM   #10
FDA_Approved
Beta Tester
 
FDA_Approved's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 293 Times
Quote:
(and no-one even seems to have seen the 3 days of work I put into making a race lua for every default CTF map)

Well it's just kind of silly I believe. We've already bhopped the shit out of every CTF map. And there's extremely little room for improvement. FF has a speed cap which makes the only real skill in a race is managing your trimps (aka trying to avoid them entirely). So without some kind of gimmick like in your first race map, then racing all together is pretty stale, especially in stock maps.

Quote:
In fact, I make so many maps that I can never find the ones I haven't finished.
Get in line guy, everyone who's opened hammer will tell you the same. I have millions of copies of millions of random little maps I started to test an idea for a project or just proof of concepts.

Quote:
It takes me at least 12 hours a day to make 1 of these.
Here are definitely some of your problems. For starters, a proper map start to finish probly should take more than 12 hours. Idk iansir seemed to pump them out insanely fast. But for most people I don't think 12 hours is really putting out a quality project.

Quote:
I have made around 80+ maps, properly textured, which I just delete because they play like shit or are way too small because I still suck at getting sizing correct.
Don't get so bent out of shape and shit. You need to take the "fail faster" approach to your design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDjrOaoHz9s#t=238

Basicly it means you're probly not going to come up with a fully fledged (and awesome) idea, and get it right all on the first try. If you've finished a map only to realize the only problem is "sizing" before you delete it then you've made a true mistake. "play like shit" isn't a big deal either. You look at your map and all of it's problems, then you open hammer back up and try to solve those.

When I first made tidalwave, it was terrible and hugely disproportionate. I realized that, made adjustments and it's STILL terrible. But it's also probly the most played "newer" map in ff.pickup.
http://www.ffpickup.com/mapstats.php

Tbh I don't think anyone (especially including myself) is that good at mapping for FF, bar Mushy, and even he made a couple turds. That's because there's a lot of nuances to FF that take a lot of thought to translate and balance into maps.

But if you're going to map make something original, it's always going to be more well received, and you'll feel more accomplished for it. Working with existing maps is a risky thing. Something like a seasonal reskin is nice, ala snopenfire. But you should leave that to someone who'll do a proper job unless you can really put the level of quality headzy did into his.

On the other hand doing things like changing little stuff like adding an sg ledge or cutting a hole out of some battlements, or other random tweeks, I find fairly offensive. As it kind of insinuates that the original had a problem and that YOU have the solution. And jesus christ if you do reskin a map don't take two very plain tiling textures and put them on everything and then just add hdr, when you've effectively removed any visual "range" or "dynamic" from the map in the first place.

Just, for the love of god don't mess with existing maps. Make something new.
__________________
Currently equipped: Rad Scarf of liberating happiness.

Last edited by FDA_Approved; 03-02-2014 at 03:05 PM.
FDA_Approved is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-02-2014, 03:21 PM   #11
the_cake
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts Rated Helpful 144 Times
tbh I don't mind altering existing maps. Just firstly know what the fuck you're doing and secondly understand that certain people will blindly reject any kind of change, good or bad. The other thing to do it be sneaky like Mushy and make a new map based on an old one but have it be different enough to name it a different map. That way people won't nitpick the differences but appreciate the similarities.
the_cake is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-02-2014, 03:28 PM   #12
FDA_Approved
Beta Tester
 
FDA_Approved's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 293 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_cake View Post
The other thing to do it be sneaky like Mushy and make a new map based on an old one but have it be different enough to name it a different map. That way people won't nitpick the differences but appreciate the similarities.
Everyone knows Propinquity is phantom backwards. Look: ytiuqniporp.
__________________
Currently equipped: Rad Scarf of liberating happiness.
FDA_Approved is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-03-2014, 09:08 PM   #13
Ricey
UI Designer
Front-End Developer
Fortress Forever Staff
 
Ricey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winter Park, FL
Class/Position: D Eng
Gametype: CTF 9v9
Affiliations: .gr , smr
Posts Rated Helpful 46 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm999 View Post
Except all those 50+ maps weren't CTF. CTF maps take 12 hours.
IvD maps on the other hand take 20+ hours.
CP maps take 30+ hours.

Pretty much what FDA has said about this; I have maps, which most likely will never see the light of day were i have spent 3 MONTHS working on.



I spent a good 4+ hours just messing with this room just to have fun. You can easily spend DAYS upon DAYS just doing displacements, making the perfect mountain range.

Ask Elmo how long he's spent on his map(s), it's on beta 99 or something retarded like that. Hell, even Bases is still being adjusted to this day.
__________________
Support FF:
Maps : Haste |Scrummage |Mulch_Trench
Voltage | Exchange Classic | Fortsake
ricecakes: I demand SGs get a buff
squeek.: buy it a gym membership


'I have an eye for design' - Kube 2014
Ricey is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-04-2014, 12:57 PM   #14
rdrt
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
To begin, I want to thank you for taking the time to create this map, beta it, compile it and upload it for the ingrate FF community to play. I think you absolutely achieved your explicit goal of creating a unique, open map that provides for extremely fun PUBLIC gameplay. After reading some of the prior schizophreniform posts I wanted to commend your work.

ff_spaceship:
I was really impressed with many aspects of lighting and effects I had not really seen demonstrated on other maps. You combined many of these elements throughout the map, creating different rooms and environments that I wanted to explore for a time before I wanted to get to the fight.
The map is open and provides many challenging areas that draws out the gameplay a little bit, which I enjoyed for a change.

There is some critical feedback I would like to give. It was clear there were many new elements in your map, however the combination of several lighting effects in areas achieved the "spaceship" feel, however did cause strain on my eyes within a few minutes. I think maintaining your unique elements, however in reduced numbers and proportions in future maps will add the unique aspect of your mapping in a more subtle manner.

I appreciated the fact the map was intended for public play, and it was certainly a lot of fun in that setting. I do have to admit I still find myself pretty confused, and whenever pushing the flag is concerned, having to go backward is counter-intuitive.

In conclusion, ff_spaceship is a fun new public server map with visual elements that contribute to an experience unique to FF.
rdrt is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-04-2014, 08:04 PM   #15
Uly
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
Thx for the comments rdrt and idd the appreciation & praise, glad to contribute to the FF world
Im still cracking up at schizophreniform.. nice to know someone has got your back..
I was going to leave it a couple of weeks to see if the probs with gameplay and navigation could be gotten used to, still in 2 minds about a revamp.. but i will take the feedback about layout, gameplay and the concentrated proportions of visual aspects, into the next project and try to make something as FF savvy as possible, with those aspects onboard from the outset.
I have some architecture on the go, will post when i get time to make a bit more substance, for ideas on best game style etc..

Tx for feedback fellas
Peace
Uly is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #16
Brass
BABIES!
 
Brass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Enemy Base
Class/Position: O
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Affiliations: [FPS]
Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times
Send a message via MSN to Brass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uly View Post
i don't think the entire FF experience should be confined to a small group of aggressive pseudo intellectual bedroom warriors performing a rote of movements up a series of ramps they know off by heart, while echoing an antiphon of klan inspired chants into a headset
Peace
Lol'd IRL. How long have you known this game? We could have used a guy like you when FF was somewhat active-er (hah.).
Brass is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-07-2014, 09:25 PM   #17
aleXtric
#FF.Pickup Dictator
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit
Gametype: ADL
Affiliations: KiNGz .
Posts Rated Helpful 100 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uly View Post
But at the same time, i don't think the entire FF experience should be confined to a small group of aggressive pseudo intellectual bedroom warriors performing a rote of movements up a series of ramps they know off by heart, while echoing an antiphon of klan inspired chants into a headset. Surely this would display the game and community as insular to any new players and mappers.
If you think we're bad you must not even understand the cocksuckery that existed/exists in TFC. You must have never visited thecatacombs.

In TFC the most popular AvD map besides dustbowl was ksour. The last few years of TFC it was played by total elitist assholes and noobs alike. In FF the most/only played AvD map is ksour_classic. I'm pretty sure us "bedroom warriors" aren't even "performing a rote of movements up a series of ramps they know off by heart". Because the majority of us don't even pub, the skill gap is ten miles wide and its extremely boring to play Yard DM when CTF maps get voted. The pub warriors are the ones perpetuating the same popular AvD style so if you want your map to be played it should be created with that in mind. If you're going to spend your time making a map you should make something you're positive will be played.

Or you could try and make complete original ideas like ff_genesis and ff_fusion. Those are huge successes, they've almost been played by 19 people for a total of 7 hours.
__________________
!add
#FF.Pickup - Quakenet

http://www.ffpickup.com/?p=irc
aleXtric is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-07-2014, 10:35 PM   #18
the_cake
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts Rated Helpful 144 Times
Pubs seem to accept some variation in avd maps. avanti, napoli, and vertigo aren't uncommon, and play differently than typical 1 jump avd maps.
the_cake is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 03-07-2014, 11:08 PM   #19
homie in reboks'
 
homie in reboks''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: USA
Class/Position: Soldier & Medic
Affiliations: ( ir :: ) iv| K^ †
Posts Rated Helpful 80 Times
I just played this map albeit by myself, but it seems to have issues.

Cap 1
  • It's too short and it's too simple. It's a straight line. You can pretty much grenade jump from the gate to the cap as a soldier. If you're going for an AvD map like asti I can understand, but your map is way too compact and busy, which I'll get to later, to allow for asti like gameplay.
  • Why is there a random hole in the bridge? It doesn't add to the theme and it just feels like a cheap trick to the player. It's also not a real hindrance, because it's very easy to avoid. I feel like it should be removed or the theme should be a damaged spaceship with damage throughout the map.
  • Why does the flag not spawn on the cap? It doesn't have to, but the flag spawns in what seems like a random place. Why in another hole in the bridge? Also, the flag spawns aren't cohesive for the map. Sometimes they're bleow the cap; sometimes they're off the cap; sometimes they're at a previous cap.
  • I like the hidden passage from cap 1 to cap 3. It's a good combination of sacrifice and reward.

Cap 2
  • It's too short and it's too simple. It's just like your first cap: one chokepoint.
  • The ramps up to the cap have these low hanging TV things above them, which is fine if you just walk up them, but they immediately stop you if you trimp off the ramp. This is annoying, and pretty counter-intuitive to most FF gameplay. In most FF maps you are rewarded for trimping or at the least not punished. Not a huge deal I suppose.
  • There is so much stuff jammed into this tiny capture point. It feels way too busy, but in a bland way; it's like if someone took a bunch of one color rubix cubes and tossed them into a room as decor. None of the visual additions add to the gameplay; they usually hinder it. (This is the biggest reason why this map as no flow.) Visual additions don't have to add gameplay, but they shouldn't hinder it.
  • Where do you go from this capture point? The left and right tunnels need to be clearly marked. Also, one chokepoint to the next capture point is boring, and it's basically the theme of the map so far.

Cap 3
  • I like the idea behind this capture point, but it falls flat for FF AvD. The lift and platform to jump onto cap 3 are useless. Why? Because it takes one rocketjump to get to the cap point. This makes the capture point pointless to defend and promotes spamming a chokepoint.
  • Yay! The first cap not to have only one entrance! This one has 4?! Too bad 3 of the 4 are really out of the way and just brute forcing yourself through one tunnel is the most efficient option. But, this is good. While the other entrances aren't great still having them is good.

Cap 4
  • I don't like the idea behind this capture point. The capture point is surrounded by some weird laser-shack thing. The top lasers kill you the door lasers kinda hurt, but only if you stand in them. This is a lack of cohesion. All the lasers need to do the same thing or it needs to be more clear that they are different. As it stands just walking through the door is the easiest method to cap.
  • This cap also has more entrances, which is good, but it also suffers from the same flaws: just brute force the tunnel chokepoint and walk into the laser-shack.

Overall
  • The teleporters are useless if you're bhopping. In fact, they send you back to where you started if you're bhopping. So, you have to walk through them to not be punished. This is the most counter-intuitive thing on the map.
  • This http://imgur.com/74cs4M4 is literally an elevator to nowhere. Why is this in the map?
  • The visuals are really nice, and the map seems polished. But, it isn't. Lots of the visuals get in the way of the flow and don't really add that much when they're all jammed together. You could do much more with less.
  • The map lacks flow. It's basically a tunnel from one cap to the next. Everyone gets in line and just powers through. This isn't as bad for caps 3 and 4, though.
  • I think the map has potential. I think it needs a lot of work, though. If you just wanted a map where pubstars can join, drop 93 kills from pyro spam, then nominate openfire, well...you're on the right track.

Keep mapping and I'm sure you'll get even better results. Like I said, there's potential here.
__________________

Last edited by homie in reboks'; 03-07-2014 at 11:11 PM.
homie in reboks' is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-08-2014, 02:01 PM   #20
aleXtric
#FF.Pickup Dictator
Beta Tester
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit
Gametype: ADL
Affiliations: KiNGz .
Posts Rated Helpful 100 Times
i think this thread is done
__________________
!add
#FF.Pickup - Quakenet

http://www.ffpickup.com/?p=irc
aleXtric is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.