[BALANCE] Scout versus Medic

[o_amazingnurseenrique]

Hey all,

I wanted to discuss the scout and the medic with players and the dev team. In original TFC, the medic was basically a "super scout," trading some speed for a lot more firepower, survivability, and tools at his disposal. This made the medic trump the scout as the premier flag runner class.

Is anything in the works to correct this former imbalance, or is it deemed "the way things are" in Fortress? What would you like to see?

[o_led]

You have apparantly not seen the best scouts in action, the likes of Harmony/Bobo/riz and so on (yanks plz fill me in with great scouts you got over there)

[o_rymdkejsaren]

Not sure what you're on about. Scouts were premium flag runners, I've seen them perform minor miracles.

[o_uncle-argon]

Yep, scout is a far better flag runner than medic.

I played scout in clan TFC for years and, when you look at stats, I would get significantly more flag touches than the rest of my offy team put together. The speed of the scout and the extra conc means he will always get lots of crucial touches and throws. Look at the deaths that a top scout has compared to a medic at the end of a match; he'll often have made twice as many attacks, or at the very least 50% more. More attacks = more flag movement.

As a scout, the basic idea is to just throw yourself relentlessly at the flag and hope to throw it out of the lasers, off a ramp, into a pit, down a corridor etc, or, if you're lucky, manage to conc it away. Medics are a good support class - taking down sgs, putting pressure on defenders - but, in terms of flag movement, a good scout does a heck of a lot more. Although I'd be happy to give more power to scouts, I don't think they are disadvantaged compared to medics once you know how to use them and I don't think they really need much more power.

[o_player]

There are a few medics though that move like scouts :P

Maybe not as fast but they are almost as effective.

[Lost]

Best play I've ever seen was a recorded match on openfire where the scout conced in through the water, conced up to the ledge above the water, right side as you come in and grabbed the flag, then conced down and back out the water without missing a beat. I think it was Rizzo actually, not for sure though, its been a while.

[o_goldplatypus]

lolz scout is more fun

[o_darknight]

Love the scout. Movement is just teh win!!!111

*loads up TFC*

edit. Yes Rizzo.

[o_luminous]

i can do the conca jumps

[o_player]

Originally Posted by goldplatypus

lolz scout is more fun

Than playing medic? Never! : )

[o_fail]

Beta testing is for a reason lawl!

[o_shrine]

argon's got it right there however its not all speed, the better players like bobo are not only quick but also intelligent in the way they play which makes them much better than the average joe, accept riz who uses a crouch script the noob!

[o_soundchaser]

Originally Posted by Darknight

Love the scout. Movement is just teh win!!!111

*loads up TFC*

edit. Yes Rizzo.

sounds like the announcer is busting a load ...haha

[o_unf]

Originally Posted by AmazingNurseEnrique

Hey all,

I wanted to discuss the scout and the medic with players and the dev team. In original TFC, the medic was basically a "super scout," trading some speed for a lot more firepower, survivability, and tools at his disposal. This made the medic trump the scout as the premier flag runner class.

Is anything in the works to correct this former imbalance, or is it deemed "the way things are" in Fortress? What would you like to see?

lol they are perfectly balanced

[o_amazingnurseenrique]

Originally Posted by unf

lol they are perfectly balanced

Care to elaborate how and why?

It's quite possible I'm wrong, but if you disagree with the point, explain it to me.

[o_rizzo]

They are balanced pretty much perfectly yes, even tho medic is pretty fast class, scout is a lot faster and its possible to perform jumps & concs that medic just cant do (lets say the conc from the end of openfire's water -> ramp -> up to flag [yes its possible as medic too but the % to miss it is way bigger])

Nowadays clans run 1 scout on pretty much every map. Soldier misses 1 rocket -> sentry aint up -> flag's gone, thats how's it is now. Only thing i really hate in TFC at all is teh fecking gren radius, which is luckily getting fixed in FF

[o_aftershock]

As rizzo mentions, the grenade radius is the major reason why people use medics over scouts. Scouts simply die to spam far too often on most maps. In FF, the grenade radius will be smaller and thus scouts will be more effective again.

In FF, the game will be more about movement skills (offense) vs aiming/prediction skills (defense), rather than spam skills vs spam skills. (I hope! )

Nowadays clans run 1 scout on pretty much every map.

As a side note, I think this is more to do with the communities acceptance of open, scout-friendly maps, rather than a shift in class balance. If you remember the old days of 2fort, well and bases, you would not see a scout very often there - the newer map rotations of openfire, sd2, schtop etc are much more scout friendly and thus preffered to play, imho.

[o_unf]

Originally Posted by rizzo

They are balanced pretty much perfectly yes, even tho medic is pretty fast class, scout is a lot faster and its possible to perform jumps & concs that medic just cant do (lets say the conc from the end of openfire's water -> ramp -> up to flag [yes its possible as medic too but the % to miss it is way bigger])

Nowadays clans run 1 scout on pretty much every map. Soldier misses 1 rocket -> sentry aint up -> flag's gone, thats how's it is now. Only thing i really hate in TFC at all is teh fecking gren radius, which is luckily getting fixed in FF

Pretty much what he said. Athough medics are an amazing asset to any Offense, they cannot compare to the speed, flexibility and concing capabilities of a scout.

[o_nezumi]

Actually, I'm pretty sure medics have the advantage in terms of flexibility.

But, yea.

Maybe with the caltrop grenade instead of just a caltrop spore cloud the scouts will have something a little more strategic at their disposal.

[o_amazingnurseenrique]

Originally Posted by unf

Pretty much what he said. Athough medics are an amazing asset to any Offense, they cannot compare to the speed, flexibility and concing capabilities of a scout.

That makes sense to me as far as the concing capabilities.

Do you think any balance changes need to take place on this front?