Good & Bad Mapping Habits

o_zsilver_fox · 10-30-2006, 10:39 PM

Figured we could use a list here for the mapping community... what are some good and bad mapping habits that you other... better mappers know of?

o_sh4x · 10-30-2006, 10:56 PM

I think I spent more time just looking at the stuff I did and thinking about what I should do next than building the map.

You know... build something, compile, sit back and look at it. The "look at it" part is often pretty fucking long. You gotta think about how the thing you built affect the map and find another good idea to build next.

That's how I work. And I think it works good.

o_imbrifer · 10-30-2006, 11:13 PM

Sometimes I think doing things, stumbling around, deleting things and so on is better. It may seem counterproductive, but when you are in it, getting your hands dirty you are doing more than just improving that map - youre improving your skills and your repertoire of things to drop in your maps and ways to build them.

One bad habit i've seen is making maps too farking [u]grey[/b]. I did it too in Lake, but man.. I don't know about you all, but I would get depressed and/or go mad from playing a gray map for half an hour.

o_bumgravy · 10-31-2006, 02:18 AM

A good habit is redoing areas, even those youre more or less happy with. Its important not to be afraid to remove something, even if youve spent ages doing it and it fits perfectly, but you still dont like it. I tend to make something, go "well, its alright i guess, maybe just a little messy", then get fucked over later on when it interferes with another area. Much better to save a new file, delete what you just made and start again if its not exactly what you want, because you can always go back. Sometimes I will delete, or just drag away an area and then make something much better. I think i just kinda get attached to bits if put a lot of work in and cant bring myself to hit delete. I have an "unused" vis group in my map, which is loads of random architecture that I like, but dont fit my theme, or theres just no room for them.

My worst habit by far though is smoking while mapping, ill quite happily sit and chainsmoke while mapping tough areas, whenever i need some thinking time ill sit back and light another cigarette. I have no such problems with joints tho, quite the opposite in fact, Ill have a bifter and make crazy stuff for hours, totally engrossed in hammer. So joints = good habit, cigarettes = bad habit.

I like this thread though and id be interested as to what others have to say on the subject!

o_2d-chris · 10-31-2006, 02:47 AM

A bad habbit and one that i am sure many mappers have had at some point .. the ability to finish a project they start. Think i made 3 or so maps before actually calling one finished

Ideas often flood your mind and they seem so kewl, try and finish the ideas you previously had otherwise you will get nowhere. Unless you can fit that idea into your current level.

also not all ideas are good ones, at first thought all ideas seem good, only when you REALLY think about something will it be clearer.

o_pigeons · 10-31-2006, 09:35 AM

chris-

Got some links to your previous work?

o_loader · 10-31-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2d-chris

A bad habbit and one that i am sure many mappers have had at some point .. the ability to finish a project they start. Think i made 3 or so maps before actually calling one finished

Seconded.

o_stino · 10-31-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loader

Seconded.

is suppose i can say thirded

, but i have time, ff is not released yet so ..

o_tripped · 10-31-2006, 08:25 PM

Make rough sketches of blueprints, rooms, and/or pieces of scenery before you start mapping.

Keep a theme.

Try to figure out things instead of working around them.

Try to give every room a purpose and try to make the rooms look like they would have a casual non-battle purpose (The office building wasn't built for shootouts. It was built for production. In an office building, you would find offices/cubicles, file storage rooms, a lobby, a lounge, some bathrooms, a parking lot, etc. Guns would probably be found in storage closets, security check-in booths, etc.)

Give it some strategic value. Add some hiding places, some sniper perches, some places for cover. Spawn people away from the flag room to allow some vulnerability. Give every player class the opportunity to do what they do.

o_sizeablessonic · 11-01-2006, 01:27 AM

A bad habit is to rush a map, a good one is to take your time.

Decs · 11-01-2006, 07:30 AM

I dont map but it applys to pretty much every creative field that its positive if you accept the fact that you might have to kill your babys sometimes for the sake of a greter good and like others have said, finishing shit.

o_nezumi · 11-01-2006, 10:44 AM

I have a huge problem with starting things and never finishing them. With FF right now I have the excuse of not having the textures and ents, and hopefully the momentum created by the game actually being released will propel me through the tough fiddly bits of all the maps I have partially completed.

Kinda related to that, and building on what 2d-chris said, I think it's a good idea to hold off on a map untill you have multiple good ideas that can all go in the same map. That way you'll have more than just an awesome flag room in a really boring map.

Trying to make a theme in a map is a good idea, once you've gotten started. Try picking a few architectural details, like a type of arch or ceiling design, and limiting the number of textures you use as much as possible. Before I started trying to do this my maps would always seem either boring or cluttered, although not usually both.

And always remember to texture as you make your map. Don't wait untill it's done to paste texture over the top. Good texturing enhances and influences the architexture of your map.

o_a boojum snark · 11-01-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh4x

I think I spent more time just looking at the stuff I did and thinking about what I should do next than building the map.

You know... build something, compile, sit back and look at it. The "look at it" part is often pretty fucking long.

I know all about this, and it's FAR worse when you have a friend join you in multiplayer to get comments on something. Things that take 10 minutes to do end with hours of lost time screwing around afterwards.

o_imbrifer · 11-01-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezumi

I think it's a good idea to hold off on a map untill you have multiple good ideas that can all go in the same map.

So true. If you think you have a badass idea for a flagroom, or battlements or something, make it, but wait to make the rest of the map till you have good ideas for it!

Again: Theme is huge. Your theme will make your map. It will make it FEEL like something, rather than just rooms. Maps that pop into mind that have strong themes are Well, Epicenter, Rock2.. every map has a theme but a quality map has a solid, seamless theme throughout the whole map. Make it come to life with sounds, the skybox, lighting, etc..

o_exr8ed · 11-01-2006, 10:09 PM

stopping after making each brush to see if anyone said anything in irc.. lol

o_2d-chris · 11-02-2006, 09:54 AM

Hehe - I suppose my most popular work was on this level ...

Though i do have several more finished maps that are awaiting release, i cannot show them at the momment

A good tip would be to do as much planning before you actually get building it, draw some 2d sketches, get some reference puctures from the internet and build a VERY basic layout before you attempt a detailed room or two. I find the first thing that helps when designing a level (after understanding the game you are mapping for) is to make a list of ideas that pop into your head, for example :

A dam facility ...

-James bond film with the Hoover dam!
-Hydroelectric generators
-Spilways
-Steep cliffs / Electric Wires/Pylons
-Staff Areas / Eating area / Staff carparking
-Public Areas / Carparking / Visitor center

This is obviously a quick list but you should get the general idea, from this list you can start putting together some kind of layout or at least help you along with reference hunting. Hope that helps

o_eat · 11-02-2006, 04:05 PM

Creating all brushes with nodraw texture, and then texturing the sides you want to be seen <--- saves years if you remember to do it.

o_a boojum snark · 11-02-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eat

Creating all brushes with nodraw texture, and then texturing the sides you want to be seen <--- saves years if you remember to do it.

Yeah, but then every brush ends up in the autovisgroup 'nodraw' with no way to remove them. <_< *stabs Hammer* So I've began making brushes with the orange dev texture.

o_nuk3m · 11-02-2006, 07:27 PM

a good mapping habit? draw out designs on paper before you put them ingame, as your mind works quicker then your mouse so you should get ideas drawn up pretty fast, i came up with a temple map a while back, where its pyramid bases, and a silo inside, it was pretty sweet but i never completed it though cause there wasnt enough room left in the tfc shitty 4 MB MAX bs.

o_sh4x · 11-02-2006, 07:28 PM

???? lol

I don't understand your problem Snark.

If you create a displacement it's gonna end up in the autovisgroup for displacements... is that bad?

You can modify the visgroups like you want, the auto ones, just ignore them.

10-30-2006, 10:39 PM	#1
o_zsilver_fox Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	Good & Bad Mapping Habits Figured we could use a list here for the mapping community... what are some good and bad mapping habits that you other... better mappers know of?

11-01-2006, 07:30 AM	#11
Decs Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Norway Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I dont map but it applys to pretty much every creative field that its positive if you accept the fact that you might have to kill your babys sometimes for the sake of a greter good and like others have said, finishing shit. __________________ Official model desecrator

11-02-2006, 09:54 AM	#16
o_2d-chris Join Date: May 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Hehe - I suppose my most popular work was on this level ... Though i do have several more finished maps that are awaiting release, i cannot show them at the momment A good tip would be to do as much planning before you actually get building it, draw some 2d sketches, get some reference puctures from the internet and build a VERY basic layout before you attempt a detailed room or two. I find the first thing that helps when designing a level (after understanding the game you are mapping for) is to make a list of ideas that pop into your head, for example : A dam facility ... -James bond film with the Hoover dam! -Hydroelectric generators -Spilways -Steep cliffs / Electric Wires/Pylons -Staff Areas / Eating area / Staff carparking -Public Areas / Carparking / Visitor center This is obviously a quick list but you should get the general idea, from this list you can start putting together some kind of layout or at least help you along with reference hunting. Hope that helps Last edited by o_2d-chris; 11-02-2006 at 10:07 AM.

10-30-2006, 10:56 PM	#2
o_sh4x Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I think I spent more time just looking at the stuff I did and thinking about what I should do next than building the map. You know... build something, compile, sit back and look at it. The "look at it" part is often pretty fucking long. You gotta think about how the thing you built affect the map and find another good idea to build next. That's how I work. And I think it works good.

10-30-2006, 11:13 PM	#3
o_imbrifer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Changes every few months Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Sometimes I think doing things, stumbling around, deleting things and so on is better. It may seem counterproductive, but when you are in it, getting your hands dirty you are doing more than just improving that map - youre improving your skills and your repertoire of things to drop in your maps and ways to build them. One bad habit i've seen is making maps too farking [u]grey[/b]. I did it too in Lake, but man.. I don't know about you all, but I would get depressed and/or go mad from playing a gray map for half an hour.

10-31-2006, 02:18 AM	#4
o_bumgravy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	A good habit is redoing areas, even those youre more or less happy with. Its important not to be afraid to remove something, even if youve spent ages doing it and it fits perfectly, but you still dont like it. I tend to make something, go "well, its alright i guess, maybe just a little messy", then get fucked over later on when it interferes with another area. Much better to save a new file, delete what you just made and start again if its not exactly what you want, because you can always go back. Sometimes I will delete, or just drag away an area and then make something much better. I think i just kinda get attached to bits if put a lot of work in and cant bring myself to hit delete. I have an "unused" vis group in my map, which is loads of random architecture that I like, but dont fit my theme, or theres just no room for them. My worst habit by far though is smoking while mapping, ill quite happily sit and chainsmoke while mapping tough areas, whenever i need some thinking time ill sit back and light another cigarette. I have no such problems with joints tho, quite the opposite in fact, Ill have a bifter and make crazy stuff for hours, totally engrossed in hammer. So joints = good habit, cigarettes = bad habit. I like this thread though and id be interested as to what others have to say on the subject!

10-31-2006, 02:47 AM	#5
o_2d-chris Join Date: May 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	A bad habbit and one that i am sure many mappers have had at some point .. the ability to finish a project they start. Think i made 3 or so maps before actually calling one finished Ideas often flood your mind and they seem so kewl, try and finish the ideas you previously had otherwise you will get nowhere. Unless you can fit that idea into your current level. also not all ideas are good ones, at first thought all ideas seem good, only when you REALLY think about something will it be clearer.

10-31-2006, 09:35 AM	#6
o_pigeons Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	chris- Got some links to your previous work?

10-31-2006, 08:25 PM	#9
o_tripped Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Make rough sketches of blueprints, rooms, and/or pieces of scenery before you start mapping. Keep a theme. Try to figure out things instead of working around them. Try to give every room a purpose and try to make the rooms look like they would have a casual non-battle purpose (The office building wasn't built for shootouts. It was built for production. In an office building, you would find offices/cubicles, file storage rooms, a lobby, a lounge, some bathrooms, a parking lot, etc. Guns would probably be found in storage closets, security check-in booths, etc.) Give it some strategic value. Add some hiding places, some sniper perches, some places for cover. Spawn people away from the flag room to allow some vulnerability. Give every player class the opportunity to do what they do.

11-01-2006, 01:27 AM	#10
o_sizeablessonic Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewere in Nevada Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	A bad habit is to rush a map, a good one is to take your time.

11-01-2006, 10:44 AM	#12
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I have a huge problem with starting things and never finishing them. With FF right now I have the excuse of not having the textures and ents, and hopefully the momentum created by the game actually being released will propel me through the tough fiddly bits of all the maps I have partially completed. Kinda related to that, and building on what 2d-chris said, I think it's a good idea to hold off on a map untill you have multiple good ideas that can all go in the same map. That way you'll have more than just an awesome flag room in a really boring map. Trying to make a theme in a map is a good idea, once you've gotten started. Try picking a few architectural details, like a type of arch or ceiling design, and limiting the number of textures you use as much as possible. Before I started trying to do this my maps would always seem either boring or cluttered, although not usually both. And always remember to texture as you make your map. Don't wait untill it's done to paste texture over the top. Good texturing enhances and influences the architexture of your map.

11-01-2006, 10:09 PM	#15
o_exr8ed Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	stopping after making each brush to see if anyone said anything in irc.. lol

11-02-2006, 04:05 PM	#17
o_eat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Creating all brushes with nodraw texture, and then texturing the sides you want to be seen <--- saves years if you remember to do it.

11-02-2006, 07:27 PM	#19
o_nuk3m Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersy, USA! reppin' Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	a good mapping habit? draw out designs on paper before you put them ingame, as your mind works quicker then your mouse so you should get ideas drawn up pretty fast, i came up with a temple map a while back, where its pyramid bases, and a silo inside, it was pretty sweet but i never completed it though cause there wasnt enough room left in the tfc shitty 4 MB MAX bs.

11-02-2006, 07:28 PM	#20
o_sh4x Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	???? lol I don't understand your problem Snark. If you create a displacement it's gonna end up in the autovisgroup for displacements... is that bad? You can modify the visgroups like you want, the auto ones, just ignore them.

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