Usage of Spy's gas grenades

[KubeDawg]

If a person does anything to spam spawn, they will be warned, kicked, or banned from my server. So, now that we've completely ELIMINATED the possibility of spawn spamming. lets focus on more important strategies such as defending your flag..................

[battery]

Originally Posted by C-Aim

lol you are clearly alone on this one battery. Everything you describe is griefing and people don't like it. The reason is simple: it is unsportsmanlike. Games like FF and TFC and TF2 (to a lesser extent) are fun as long as people are not doing things that intentionally exploit the game's weaknesses and ruin the overall experience. There is no skill or tactics involved in spamming a respawn door, and the only people that like it are the people actually doing the spamming.

You see spawn room as the game's weakness, but I see it as a feature. In 2fort there are 2 spawns rooms and 3 different ways to get out. By design, the maps discourages offense from targeting the spawns rooms because they are too numerous, and too far apart. In the map shutdown, there is only 1 spawn and 1 way out. Boy! you'd better be building some sentry to guard that critical path.

The number and placement of spawn is crucial feature of the map. Your strategy will be influenced by it. It may take little skill to attack the spawn, but that's only because your opponents are negligent. Hell, you can even build a sentry there when no one is around. It requires little skill from you, but you takes some major lack of skill on their part.
________
Stracraft replay

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by battery

You see spawn room as the game's weakness, but I see it as a feature. In 2fort there are 2 spawns rooms and 3 different ways to get out. By design, the maps discourages offense from targeting the spawns rooms because they are too numerous, and too far apart. In the map shutdown, there is only 1 spawn and 1 way out. Boy! you'd better be building some sentry to guard that critical path.

The number and placement of spawn is crucial feature of the map. Your strategy will be influenced by it. It may take little skill to attack the spawn, but that's only because your opponents are negligent. Hell, you can even build a sentry there when no one is around. It requires little skill from you, but you takes some major lack of skill on their part.

You are wrong again. Shutdown has 2 spawns, and 2 ways out, and most CTF maps have at least the same. But that's not the point in regards to spawns. Spawns are EASY to defend because you can restock and pwn the enemy in a few seconds, wheras they'd have to go all the way back to their spawn to beef up on health/ammo... People on defense near their spawn have the clear advantage.

you might need to build closer to a spawn simply to get packs faster to upgrade your SG, but for the most part, every piece of action takes place away from the spawns. If the spawns were right at the flag spot, I could see your point, but they're not.

[battery]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

If a person does anything to spam spawn, they will be warned, kicked, or banned from my server. So, now that we've completely ELIMINATED the possibility of spawn spamming. lets focus on more important strategies such as defending your flag..................

If using grenade near spawn is not permitted in the server, don't despair! Remember the map "well" in TFC? What happen if you build a sentry on enemy attic and then pipebomb the water entrance/exit? They are stuck in their base for a loooong time. EMP nades thru the wall? No problem. They can destory the sentry up there, but they still have to face the pipebombs, det packs, napalm, and GAS GRENADES in front of their main entrance.

So you see, you have options! Even if they camp the flag, you can at least prevent enemy offense from getting out of their own base. If they deny you a chance to get close to flag, then do unto them the same. But you have a advantage here since the front line is in their base, not yours.
________
Box Vaporizer

[Meathook]

you people are stupid, How close to your spawn are we allowed to fight?

you get spawn.

you get resupply room.

you get the area outside your resupply?


how about you try to kill your enemy. Instead of all this bullshit.

NEW RULE: Dont come out of your spawn/resupply until you're ready to fight.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by battery

If using grenade near spawn is not permitted in the server, don't despair! Remember the map "well" in TFC? What happen if you build a sentry on enemy attic and then pipebomb the water entrance/exit? They are stuck in their base for a loooong time. EMP nades thru the wall? No problem. They can destory the sentry up there, but they still have to face the pipebombs, det packs, napalm, and GAS GRENADES in front of their main entrance.

So you see, you have options! Even if they camp the flag, you can at least prevent enemy offense from getting out of their own base. If they deny you a chance to get close to flag, then do unto them the same. But you have a advantage here since the front line is in their base, not yours.

There is a really quick way to get rid of a SG in your attic. Spam the shit out of it with mirvs and pipes. There is a quick way to get rid of pipes blocking any entrance. Conc out of it, too quick for the demoman's reflexes, or fake out the demoman, or if you see him, but his pipes are too far away from you for him to blow them, then start shooting him...

These all can be remedied. What you are suggesting is not how the game is meant to be played. By building in the attic or by blocking entrances and just sitting there means you are not either defending your own flag or not going for the enemy flag.....

Another thing. What if they get past your so-cleverly-placed sentry gun or pipes? they're halfway across the map getting your flag, while you don't have pipes or a SG placed by your flag, leaving your defense completely open. And don't give me some bs like you'll catch up with em, because you are a slower class in most cases. And if they do get away and you're out of grenades, you gotta kill yourself, which takes 5 seconds, and by that time, the enemy could be at your flag already. then, a fellow teammate on the opposing team will be able to destroy your now unguarded SG, or if you were a demoman, you obviously dont have your pipes anymore.......

[battery]

Actually KubeDawg, there is an easy way to kill the sentry on the attic without even leaving your base. (I am talking about well in TFC) Become Engineer, go to sniper deck, throw EMP nades to ceiling. You will need to jump and release your EMP at the apex of your jump. EMP will go thru the ceiling and hit anything on attic.

EMP works both ways. Once you have taken control outside of their base, throw some EMP at the wall. It will destory any sentry gun behind the door and the wall.

When your opponents focus too much on defense, i.e. almost everyone guarding flag, you can start playing the game of attrition. Don't try to go for the flag. Instead, kill their offense. Soon enough their defensive player will be bored. This will force them to play some offense. That's when you have a chance to get close to their flag. If they do insist on camping flag, the game may end in a tie. But then at least you have fun killing their offense.
________
TRICHOME

[BinaryLife]

My primary beef with spawn spaming is that it disrupts play. It makes the game not fun.

The spawn itself is supposed to be a haven... err the inside is. I do agree that if there is a player outside the spawn they're fair game for attack. Whether they're on their way in or out it's fair to grenade, shoot or whatever.

But if there are no players then it's not really cool to just throw grenades there. It's like offsides in soccer. Sure, you could just cherry pick the other team's goal, but it's dick and requires little skill. The rule favors the defense for that reason. If the ball's not there then the area is not in play.

To me, it's the same for the respawn. You can chase a player around it if they're there. But that's all. You can't go inside or spam it. It's simply not fun.

[Desyphur]

But now you're talking about EXPLOITING. That's not cool either.

[KubeDawg]

Originally Posted by battery

Actually KubeDawg, there is an easy way to kill the sentry on the attic without even leaving your base. (I am talking about well in TFC) Become Engineer, go to sniper deck, throw EMP nades to ceiling. You will need to jump and release your EMP at the apex of your jump. EMP will go thru the ceiling and hit anything on attic.

EMP works both ways. Once you have taken control outside of their base, throw some EMP at the wall. It will destory any sentry gun behind the door and the wall.

I know that, I was just giving one example of how you could do that. So basically you are retracting your previous statement and agreeing with my point.

Originally Posted by battery

When your opponents focus too much on defense, i.e. almost everyone guarding flag, you can start playing the game of attrition. Don't try to go for the flag. Instead, kill their offense. Soon enough their defensive player will be bored. This will force them to play some offense. That's when you have a chance to get close to their flag. If they do insist on camping flag, the game may end in a tie. But then at least you have fun killing their offense.

If you are referring to clan play, there will probably be a rule against Turtling, but if it's a pub, it becomes a stalemate as noone will leave their base. You have to at least try for their flag. You want to win right? If they have too many defensive players, that obviously means they have a minimal amount of offensive players, allowing practically your entire defense to go offense and it then becomes a game of OvD.

[battery]

Sentry guns can be rebuilt after the EMP attack, so long as the enemies are trapped inside their base. Hopefully, your engineers are smart enought to locate themselves and their despensers away from attics.

In order for your entire team to go offense, you must neutralize the enemy offense. One way to achieve this is to trap them inside their base. You don't have to worry about your flag if they cannot even get out. So their offense essentially become defense.
________
Teen sleeping

[battery]

In FF, spamming spawn exits are sometimes more than optional. For instance, the conc exits of the map "well" are frequently infested with snipers. The spawn exits happen to be the sniper tower! Every time I pass under there I feel compelled to spam a lot of nades in there. I mean, you can't be sure there is any snipers at the exit unless you place yourself in grave danger...so grenades is really the best way to go.

The newer map design in FF simply invites people to spam the spawn exit. You may be like this fact, but you will see it happen all the times.
________
JAILBROKEN

[Firefox11]

Originally Posted by battery

In FF, spamming spawn exits are sometimes more than optional. For instance, the conc exits of the map "well" are frequently infested with snipers. The spawn exits happen to be the sniper tower! Every time I pass under there I feel compelled to spam a lot of nades in there. I mean, you can't be sure there is any snipers at the exit unless you place yourself in grave danger...so grenades is really the best way to go.

The newer map design in FF simply invites people to spam the spawn exit. You may be like this fact, but you will see it happen all the times.

So true. Rare is the time when I can't conc out of the spawn because one of our team Snipers is there blocking the exit, glaring at the beautiful enemy base waiting for someone to headshot. Then a Demo spawns and decides to pipe the Sniper out of the way and so on.

It certainly makes you want to throw a nade in there just in case you kill something.

[Desyphur]

Originally Posted by battery

In FF, spamming spawn exits are sometimes more than optional. For instance, the conc exits of the map "well" are frequently infested with snipers. The spawn exits happen to be the sniper tower! Every time I pass under there I feel compelled to spam a lot of nades in there. I mean, you can't be sure there is any snipers at the exit unless you place yourself in grave danger...so grenades is really the best way to go.

The newer map design in FF simply invites people to spam the spawn exit. You may be like this fact, but you will see it happen all the times.

Actually, the spawn points AREN'T the sniper tower

They are a CONC RAMP. If you look up, there's a sniper ledge up there, snipers just don't use it because they forgot about it.

[battery]

Originally Posted by Desyphur

Actually, the spawn points AREN'T the sniper tower

They are a CONC RAMP. If you look up, there's a sniper ledge up there, snipers just don't use it because they forgot about it.

A TF veteran like yourself should understand names don't mean anything in the game. Medics aren't primary used for healing, concussion grenade aren't primarily used to cause concussion, and conc ramps are used for concing as much as sniping.

The conc ramp provides excellent cover for the snipers. They don't even need to walk far to get back where they were after death. They FORGOT to use the sniper ledge?? Maybe. More likely though, they use the conc ramp because it's a much better sniping nest.

You can gently remind those snipers about the intended purpose of conc ramp with a gas pill.
________
Sex advice forums

[Desyphur]

Yes, and then be kicked for spawn spamming.

[A Boojum Snark]

sportsmanship: conduct (as fairness, respect for one's opponent, and graciousness in winning or losing) becoming to one participating in a sport

Preventing or inhibiting an opponent's ability to properly enter the field of play is not respectful, and certainly not gracious. Spawn spamming with grenades is, unarguably, unsportsmanlike conduct. You can say whatever you want about it but that is still the truth.

[Crazycarl]

It's stupid to spam the enemy spawn for kills, because anyone you frag will come back in 10 seconds and you'll quickly die. For the same reason, trying to take over (camp, build sentries) the enemy base is bad sportsmanship. To do it you have to completely overpower or outskill the enemy, and that is very frustrating for the people who, like you, are attempting to have a good time. If I'm on a team that is completely smashing the enemy and I think it's unfair, I'll switch teams.

However a gas grenade at the spawn door is ok with me. If I wait the five seconds for it to clear and allow you to get away, that's my fault.

[battery]

Originally Posted by A Boojum Snark

sportsmanship: conduct (as fairness, respect for one's opponent, and graciousness in winning or losing) becoming to one participating in a sport

I agree with this definition of sportmanship. Where did you get it from. Please provide reference.

Originally Posted by A Boojum Snark

Preventing or inhibiting an opponent's ability to properly enter the field of play is not respectful, and certainly not gracious. Spawn spamming with grenades is, unarguably, unsportsmanlike conduct. You can say whatever you want about it but that is still the truth.

This is your own interpretation of sportmanship. I cannot agree with it as stated. You have just told us your own idea of fairness, your own idea of respectfulness, and your own idea of graciousness. They are up for dispute. Please elaborate.
________
Rhode Island Dispensary

[Desyphur]

I believe you are the only person here who thinks it's fair game to spam spawns.