TF2, FF, Speed, and Marketing

[Circuitous]

Why the fuck would I bring up that stupid-ass argument?

It's the people that call it "kiddie" or "Pixar" that piss me off.

[Etzell]

You have in the past. Fucking Pixar Fortress 2.

Ok, maybe not the EXACT argument, but sommet close.

[Circuitous]

I don't recall ever comparing it to the realism of concing (incoming quotes of me doing exactly that in five, four...) but I do remember whining about how the visuals aren't going to make it a bad game, and that that's the stupidest thing ever, etc.

[AmazingNurseEnrique]

Originally Posted by Thunderknight

Yay! Pipe (or should I say sticky bomb) jumping is still in!


I hate to do this, but I gotta ask a few more things Nurse...


1) After watching one of the earlier preview videos, I forgot how certain "deaths" had an actual animation to them, combined with physics (Ex. When a spy knifed a guy in the back, he stumbled forward and collapsed under the effects of physics). Are these still in the game, or are all deaths purely ragdoll now?

2) Critical hits were mentioned awhile back. I'm still a bit skeptical on them. Did you manage to see/get one? Does it work well with the rest of the game, or does it just seem like a concept that's out of place?

3) Flame effects. Please tell me they are dead sexy.

The deaths seemed natural, but I was too busy playing to pay much attention to the anims involved.

Critical hits are basically telling you "hey, you got a headshot, which is increased damage...good job!" It's a learning tool, but just another name for locational damage. I was really worried it was random when I heard about it too.

Flame effects are indeed dead sexy. The Pyro is also a rape machine.

[Dospac]

So the location damage works with other/all weapons now? Please tell me head shots aren't possible with every weapon. :[

[exoskeletaL]

hey circ the more i re4d these forums the more u look like ur the one with some kinn4 stick up ur 4ss. dis4gree much?

PS: lost my "eh" key

[Loader]

lol.. classic.

[AmazingNurseEnrique]

Originally Posted by Dospac

So the location damage works with other/all weapons now? Please tell me head shots aren't possible with every weapon. :[

Locational damage, it just adds a damage modifier, not "boom headshot" one-shot style unless you're a sniper.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by exoskeletaL

hey circ the more i re4d these forums the more u look like ur the one with some kinn4 stick up ur 4ss. dis4gree much?

PS: lost my "eh" key

You figured that out, but not that I'm a hypocrite?

RESEARCH BETTER PLEASE.

[exoskeletaL]

u just dont seem like a real friendly guy is what i should have said sry

[Etzell]

You found your "eh" key!

[nodnarb]

Originally Posted by exoskeletaL

u just dont seem like a real friendly guy is what i should have said sry

IT'S A MIRACLE! His "A" key is working again!

Originally Posted by Etzell

You found your "eh" key!

poo on you!

[Dospac]

That will be.. interesting. How much is the multiplier? Like 150% or somethin?

That tilts things even farther towards hand-eye/aiming skill/dm.. Still have engy/pyro/medic I suppose. I wonder how explosions interact with that feature..

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by exoskeletaL

u just dont seem like a real friendly guy is what i should have said sry

I am, once you realise I'm mostly kidding.

My "nice side" is pretty damn nice. My "dick side" is pretty damn dicky.

Wanna be friends?

[exoskeletaL]

yes, strangest thing, i restarted my computer and bam, my esc , tab, tilde, 1, q, a, and c keys are back! cool

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

I think TF2 is gonna cater more towards me, since it looks like it fucking rocks socks.

You vets got some kinna stick up your ass.

I am not even a vet and I got a big, spikey stick up my ass.

From what Enrique says, they are taking a different approach to mass appeal than FF - they are effectively slowing down the game and dumbing it down compared to TFC, whereas FF is speeding things up a bit and using things like tutorials and the hint system to make the high level play more rewarding.

Just the fact that concing is not in means that the majority of the movement and league community would be puttin' their eggs in our particular basket.

BTW Enrique, one question for ya:

What is the status of grenades? Are they all gone except for the Demo, or what? The info on that is not really clear.

And I do not believe anyone has said it, but thanks for lettin' us know your impression of the game. Whether or not we like it, it is interesting to see how Team Fortress 2 is coming into its own as a very different iteration of TF gameplay.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

BTW Enrique, one question for ya:

What is the status of grenades? Are they all gone except for the Demo, or what? The info on that is not really clear.

There are no grenades, as has been stated in basically every TF2 preview and interview for a while.

[AmazingNurseEnrique]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

I am not even a vet and I got a big, spikey stick up my ass.

From what Enrique says, they are taking a different approach to mass appeal than FF - they are effectively slowing down the game and dumbing it down compared to TFC, whereas FF is speeding things up a bit and using things like tutorials and the hint system to make the high level play more rewarding.

Just the fact that concing is not in means that the majority of the movement and league community would be puttin' their eggs in our particular basket.

BTW Enrique, one question for ya:

What is the status of grenades? Are they all gone except for the Demo, or what? The info on that is not really clear.

And I do not believe anyone has said it, but thanks for lettin' us know your impression of the game. Whether or not we like it, it is interesting to see how Team Fortress 2 is coming into its own as a very different iteration of TF gameplay.

Grenades are 100% kaput, even the MIRV was yanked in the version I played.

From what I saw, I didn't see a dumbing down at all, they're being very careful to give players the tools they need to understand how to learn, while making it so they don't play the game for you. I feel dumbing it down would be to remove skill from the equation, or make it so that noobs are on even footing with more dedicated players. What I saw was that noobs get trashed, but have a lot of ways to see what happened and learn from it.

This is going to be essential to any competitive game in this or future generations of games. Games can still maintain a hardcore appeal, just not at the expense of barriers to entry. FF is even doing this with increased support for new players, tooltips, etc etc. If you don't do this in today's market, you're suicidal.

I guess I don't consider that a game has to be about conc/trimp/bhop to be a skill game, it's just that those skills aren't drawn upon in TF2. It's just asking more for twitch, teamwork, and role optimization as opposed to movement and map usage. Both are valid skillsets, imo, just different.

For example, saying Counter Strike doesn't require skill is pretty absurd, but you can say you aren't interested in the skills that make a good CS player. I find those skills uninteresting to learn and master personally, so I can see if players really enjoy the movement skillset of TFC and want to continue onto that. I'm personally glad TF2 isn't shackled by that viewpoint, because they used their potential to make something very new and fresh in a market overloaded with realistic/tactical shooters.

[arsenal]

A game that rewards skilled players doesn't necessarily indicate significant depth or competitive appeal.

For example when hl2dm came out, I dominated most servers on most maps. I got bored in a couple of months. It wasn't like I wasn't aware of what was possible with the game either. I could strafe jump, grav jump, cook/prime grenades etc.

The game still didn't have enough depth for me to want to stick around or play competitively.

[GhOsT]

I wasn't aware people actually played HL2DM competitively.

The thing with HL2DM is that there isn't really a goal or much teamwork. At least for me, that's why I played TFC for as long as I did since it had both of these. I made a bunch of friends in my clan and enjoyed playing with them in matches. Sure, there was individual skill but I enjoyed working together to setup defensive strategies and execute them.

Depth in a game can be more than just exploiting the physics of the game.