FF going to blow up soon!

[Everything]

Says the gu-. Never mind!

*runs away*

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Paft

Seriously now, CS doesn't have a training mode and that is a #1 online game.

O_O

Yes, it did. It had a short course that walked you through a small building shooting targets, disarming a bomb, rescuing hostages, and planting a bomb.

It does not anymore, however, but it did.

[Paft]

Oh yes that's right. I gave CS a go way back when but never touched it since.

[Everything]

CS on Xbox has one, and still does.

But who cares about xbox or cs?

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by fireb0rn

That also being said, Team Fortress 2 has absolutely no appeal to the competitive TF gamer

I disagree in part to this. TF2 does appeal to the competative team player. On our TF2 server we have some people that intend to play on the same team, work in mini-groups, as well as an entire team. TF2 was well designed to negate the individual competative gamer. That was it's goal, and it accomplished it. FF allows individual achievement and competativeness to show through more.

However, let's examine the market. If those of you are in other gaming communities, please post a link to this thread to get their input:

http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...ad.php?t=13349

Scuzzy

[greenday5494]

Originally Posted by squeek.

You agree with two opposing views! THIS IS MADNESS!

yea true. I was thinking that when i was typing lol. But, i think we should still help out the newbs, create two gametypes. One for pub play (mabye called ff_pub) and one for clan play (mabye called ff_clan). That way, if a pub server wants clan rules, the newbies will know, and they will join the pub servers instead, and the gameype for ff_clan will enforce the rules of the clans, while being custmizable by indivual clans and leagues, and servers. ff_pub is just there so people know the difference, no specific rules would be enforced.

[greenday5494]

and remember guys, FF was actually annouced to be released before TF2 was. I remember, FF said it will be out on a friday. Everyone was w00t! Then valve took the TF2 beta out of their asses, and i remeber someone edited it, and saying it might come out earlier than it would be, by a couple days because of the TF2 release. I dont think they could have done anything major in a few days people.




edit: i do like TF2 also, and i think FF deserves a training mode. It needs SOME catering to newbs, and to clanners. and pubbers. THIS is why we need a training mode, to show HOW you bhop etc, you DONT need to make it easy, or heavily capped, just show how!!!

[AfterShock]

There's some fantastic points here.. It's really good how the forums have picked up lately, much less spam and flames than there used to be. I think this sort of community is a real asset and it's doing wonders to the motivation behind the scenes.

Hopefully soon I can announce some things. *fingers crossed*

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by AfterShock

There's some fantastic points here.. It's really good how the forums have picked up lately, much less spam and flames than there used to be. I think this sort of community is a real asset and it's doing wonders to the motivation behind the scenes.

Hopefully soon I can announce some things. *fingers crossed*

<3 aftershock always getting things rolling!

[greenday5494]

yay! we get a post from aftershock, after such a long hiatus! Thanks!

[Vicious]

I like to think the forums got better because I arrived :P

[4est]

Originally Posted by Vicious

I like to think the forums got better because I arrived :P

At least we have an excuse for the smell now.

[fireb0rn]

Originally Posted by squeek.

Hey guy! Read posts!

hey, I read the post. well I'm sorry if my post was a bit long but I was trying to prove my points. you would think the suggestions of a person who doesn't play the game, when you're looking for reasons as to why people don't play the game, would be welcomed rather than mocked. =|

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

I disagree in part to this. TF2 does appeal to the competative team player. On our TF2 server we have some people that intend to play on the same team, work in mini-groups, as well as an entire team. TF2 was well designed to negate the individual competative gamer. That was it's goal, and it accomplished it. FF allows individual achievement and competativeness to show through more.

However, let's examine the market. If those of you are in other gaming communities, please post a link to this thread to get their input:

http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...ad.php?t=13349

Scuzzy

there is no disagreement. In my post I said that TF2 does not have any appeal to the competitive TF player. You say that it has appeal to the competitive team player and I would agree that it does at least to some extent. To the competitive TF player though it has no appeal for reasons I stated in my argument. if you want really want to debate my argument then debate my points, not my conclusion...

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by fireb0rn

hey, I read the post. well I'm sorry if my post was a bit long but I was trying to prove my points. you would think the suggestions of a person who doesn't play the game, when you're looking for reasons as to why people don't play the game, would be welcomed rather than mocked. =|

I wasn't intending to mock, I was just pointing out that people have the same opinion as you in this thread. Plus, your entire argument can be condensed into 1 sentence:

FF does not have, or has never had, the ability to market to the casual gamer; therefore, it must try to attract the competitive gamer by doing things such as increasing the bunnyhop cap.

Done. It's a valid point, and it is likely to be addressed in the future.

[fireb0rn]

Originally Posted by squeek.

I wasn't intending to mock, I was just pointing out that people have the same opinion as you in this thread. Plus, your entire argument can be condensed into 1 sentence:

FF does not have, or has never had, the ability to market to the casual gamer; therefore, it must try to attract the competitive gamer by doing things such as increasing the bunnyhop cap.

Done. It's a valid point, and it is likely to be addressed in the future.

what is it about my posts that makes you think it's a good idea to not even read them and yet still respond to them? If you aren't intending to mock then you could make a good start by reading my posts before you respond.

I said in my post (actually, in the exact message you quoted) "a lot" were going in the wrong direction, implying that I already realize that are people with the same opinion as me. "A lot" would mean that there are exceptions.

And again you fail to read my post. I said that I was trying to prove the points, not just state my opinion. If I condensed my argument into one sentence I would be providing absolutely no proof and it would convince absolutely nobody.

If someone enters into your forums with what I would consider a valuable argument in a time where you're interested in expanding your playerbase, it's probably not a good idea to mock them and their argument. Any other player probably would have probably left at this point.

[squeek.]

I tend not to do this, but I am going to take issue with this.

Originally Posted by fireb0rn

what is it about my posts that makes you think it's a good idea to not even read them and yet still respond to them? If you aren't intending to mock then you could make a good start by reading my posts before you respond.

I read each of your posts in their entirety. I observed that no new information was presented. I have just re-read your initial post, and have come to the same conclusion.

Originally Posted by fireb0rn

I said in my post (actually, in the exact message you quoted) "a lot" were going in the wrong direction, implying that I already realize that are people with the same opinion as me. "A lot" would mean that there are exceptions.

I understood that, yet I wanted to bring to your attention that the point has been introduced before, and it has, in recent posts, been agreed with. There is no need to post an entire novel proving a point that is not contented.

Originally Posted by fireb0rn

And again you fail to read my post. I said that I was trying to prove the points, not just state my opinion. If I condensed my argument into one sentence I would be providing absolutely no proof and it would convince absolutely nobody.

I feel that you still haven't provided proof in the traditional sense, because you have merely stated your opinion. If you had read your post, you would have found, save for the occasional fact or observation, that it was full of statements of opinion. The only facts presented are very easily observed (TF2 has pulled casual players, TFC community is mainly composed of competitive players, TFC players are not moving to FF). These are basically assumptions on which to base any opinion about the future of FF.

Proof comes in the form of tested evidence; something we as community members can not present. If we could change gameplay, observe its impact, and then conclude as to what to do next, we could prove that our initial opinions were correct. This, however, is impossible. Therefore, any statement of opinion by a community member, no matter how lengthy or drawn out, is just that--a statement of opinion. It does not need the extra fluff to disguise its real form.

If someone enters into your forums with what I would consider a valuable argument in a time where you're interested in expanding your playerbase, it's probably not a good idea to mock them and their argument. Any other player probably would have probably left at this point.

It is a valuable argument; however, it is presented in a poor fashion. It is perhaps the longest piece of original writing on this forum, and it really doesn't need to be, at all.

Other than that, I really was never intending to mock you, and certainly not your argument's thesis, of which I share your opinion. I do hope you stick around and help to promote the FF community, as it is needed. Although, if one person agreeing with another is enough to drive the other away, then I need to re-examine my definition of harassment.

[TwL]

Now honestly, the only way out through this situation is to stop dicussing about how to add features to "improve" another feature etc. Let's face it; you cannot change facts. Newbies don't know how to do bhop - it is a fact. Ppl don't like to play a mod because they don't like bhop - it is a fact. If the devs don't cap/remove/increase the bunnyhopping, you won't get ppl to play the mod even if you have 1373446 bhop training maps. It is practically useless.

As I said before, if you want to attract new players to play your mod, you have to modify the gameplay and features so that they WILL attract them. Can you guys list why FF will attract new players? Bhop is not a good reason - I can do that in so many other games, and many others think this technique is cheating.

The main rule in the mod world is that if you want to create a feature, don't create it just because it is cool. It must also be fun and enjoyable to use that feature especially to a newbie. I can't say I enjoy it a lot when people start to jump like crazy and I cannot aim at him (hell, that's why aimbot cheat exist)

And as again, PR is not an issue. Some of you guys are hammering too much blame on the PR. How do you think I came here and know the mod?

[mixer]

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

... I think that assumption has been proved incorrect. It, with the incredible speed you can now accomplish, made newbies have absolutely no chance against someone flying by. On Aardvark a demo can see a scout coming around that corner and whisk past the flag in two hops, all the way around the room and unless his timing is absolutely perfect, that scout is going to get past. What fun is there in that for someone who has barely played? If you continue to make bhop faster you're going to appease a smaller portion of your market, but alienate a great deal more new players.

amen to that ... cannot be highlighted often enough ... optimize the mods for pubs, not for claners ... no pubs, no fresh players, mod dead.

[Paft]

The mod is though isn't it?

[bokko]

Originally Posted by TwL

As I said before, if you want to attract new players to play your mod, you have to modify the gameplay and features so that they WILL attract them. Can you guys list why FF will attract new players? Bhop is not a good reason - I can do that in so many other games, and many others think this technique is cheating.

Bunnyhopping is a great reason that will attract players who like it, oh I know you and the majority of players don't so I guess you'll have to find another game. What other games can you bunnyhop in, that is a bullshit statement. Also calling a feature intentionally programmed into a game cheating is retarded, keep these kind of people as far away from the game as possible.

The plan is to optimize it for the part of the public willing to learn movement techniques and other advanced features.