Sony Installs Rootkits?

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 11-01-2005, 06:57 PM

Apparently this is installed and hides itself from process management...part of their DRM efforts... Anyone else hear about this or confirm this?

Schneier.com
Systernals

o_travis dane · 11-01-2005, 07:15 PM

Hmmm, download this piece of music for free on any number of P2P networks, or buy it in a shop and get fucked in the arse when I try to play it... Decisions, decisions...

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 11-01-2005, 07:18 PM

You have to wonder if the idiots that dreamed this up gave any thought to the potential exploit for evil reasons....probably not.

I'll just continue buying CD's that are not copy protected and ripping them for my own use at home.

o_voipme · 11-01-2005, 07:20 PM

That's some pretty sketchy stuff going on there. Good thing I don't buy CDs.

o_jinx · 11-01-2005, 07:55 PM

they've gone too far.

o_binarylife · 11-01-2005, 08:03 PM

Well it's still legal to rip them and use them at home. So I say do it fearlessly. If any major corperation does anything, sue them.

mirvin_monkey · 11-01-2005, 08:18 PM

wow, that's just crazy

o_ivaqual · 11-01-2005, 08:42 PM

As much as these are technically "root kits", I doubt they are or can be used as your traditional sub7 or BO. Their goal is different, and I don't particularly fear having a drunken SONY employee opening my DVD-Drive and displaying "OMG HACKED LLO" message boxes.

However it is true that this is going too far. All this trouble just for "protecting" a CD is unexplainable. Have a second sound card, plug output of sound card playing the audio in the input of the recording sound card, voilÃ*. I'm sure there are even simpler ways of doing this.

My guess is as good as yours, but I believe DRMs find their true vocation in data-mining. One of the most powerful knowledge in commerce is identifying and getting to know the habits of your customers. Knowing that is the key to marketing, and thus selling. DRMs can do that.

o_binarylife · 11-01-2005, 09:34 PM

Actualy, it gets more interesting in means of law...

You could boycott any Sony producted CD's... or honestly, all CD's.

The purpose may not only be to stop people from copyign and selling cd's but if people stop buying them as a result Sony will come around.

Have to be a large scale Boycott though... probobly wont happen. Just a thought though.

o_jinx · 11-01-2005, 09:38 PM

think you're definitely on to something with the data-mining, nagual. but that makes it spyware, and even worse imo...

the big things to me are:

a) it is not mentioned in the EULA
b) it hides itself to prevent detection
c) it cannot be uninstalled without borking windows

I consider my computer a personal space, and this kind of this is no less an invasion of privacy than secretly installing cameras in my apartment.

o_vampiricus · 11-01-2005, 09:55 PM

how about some screens of the reg?

pass on how to "bork" windows to rid of it.

o_skanky butterpuss · 11-01-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nagual678

However it is true that this is going too far. All this trouble just for "protecting" a CD is unexplainable. Have a second sound card, plug output of sound card playing the audio in the input of the recording sound card, voilÃ*. I'm sure there are even simpler ways of doing this.

yep. get a soundcard with spdif inputs and outputs (configurable in your asio panel). open up any recording program, set the input to your computer's internal sound and the output to spdif if your speakers are hooked up to analog or vice versa. hit record, and voilÃ*.

o_jinx · 11-02-2005, 12:14 AM

or even just go into your pc from your stereo with some stereo Y cables.

if you can hear it or see it, you can record it and copy it...

**mervaka** · 11-02-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nagual678

Have a second sound card, plug output of sound card playing the audio in the input of the recording sound card, voilÃ*. I'm sure there are even simpler ways of doing this.

yes that works in theory, but quality is lost on the D/A and the A/D processes. anyone know if SPDIF uses DRM? i think its only on some stuff.

o_someoldguy · 11-02-2005, 01:52 AM

Even nastier (if that is possible) than this idiocy by Sony...

This particular rootkit can allow other software to use it's "cloaking" to hide themselves too:

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=919

o_|404|innoc-tpf- · 11-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeOldGuy

Even nastier (if that is possible) than this idiocy by Sony...

This particular rootkit can allow other software to use it's "cloaking" to hide themselves too:

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=919

And quoting a quote you placed on Clan AMP.

Quote:

On a related note: World of Warcraft hackers are now using Sony's DRM rootkit to hide from "the Warden" [wowsharp.net]. I tried to submit this as a standalone story, but since I saw this DRM news update, I figured I'd post it here.

http://www.wowsharp.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7251

Guys....still think this is just a silly concern? If you think this is a silly non-issue then you clearly read none of the links I posted at the top of this thread or you read them but did not understand what was written.

o_xstioph · 11-02-2005, 09:17 PM

I quit buying cd's when I couldn't play Green Day - Warning on my computer... This do not make me regret...

n00bs hehe, not a very good strategy to get more customers, not non-stupid ones anyway.

o_ivaqual · 11-02-2005, 09:31 PM

Pretty cool.

I mean, I'm not happy that people can (amongst other things) more easily cheat at WOW, but the next days/weeks are likely to be very interesting.

o_cruor · 11-02-2005, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Yes, there's an effective and fair solution, it's called having artists returning to what they've traditionally done: performing as a way of making a living, and giving up on the idea of winning the top 40 lottery. The CD/download should be thought of as a hint of what's to come in the live performance (which people pay for), not as a main source of revenue.

Any attempt at compromise will end in failure. And yes, it involves bankruptcy for the record labels.

Quoted for truth..

o_skanky butterpuss · 11-03-2005, 12:09 AM

fuck yeah at Cruor's quote. make these artists stop being a bunch of studio pussies and get out in the open air and perform!

11-01-2005, 06:57 PM	#1
o_\|404\|innoc-tpf- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Midtown Express Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Sony Installs Rootkits? Apparently this is installed and hides itself from process management...part of their DRM efforts... Anyone else hear about this or confirm this? Schneier.com Systernals

11-01-2005, 07:15 PM	#2
o_travis dane Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Down here Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Hmmm, download this piece of music for free on any number of P2P networks, or buy it in a shop and get fucked in the arse when I try to play it... Decisions, decisions...

11-01-2005, 07:18 PM	#3
o_\|404\|innoc-tpf- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Midtown Express Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	You have to wonder if the idiots that dreamed this up gave any thought to the potential exploit for evil reasons....probably not. I'll just continue buying CD's that are not copy protected and ripping them for my own use at home.

11-01-2005, 07:20 PM	#4
o_voipme Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Work Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	That's some pretty sketchy stuff going on there. Good thing I don't buy CDs.

11-01-2005, 07:55 PM	#5
o_jinx Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ohio Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	they've gone too far.

11-01-2005, 08:03 PM	#6
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well it's still legal to rip them and use them at home. So I say do it fearlessly. If any major corperation does anything, sue them.

11-01-2005, 08:18 PM	#7
mirvin_monkey Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cape Town, SA Posts Rated Helpful 8 Times	wow, that's just crazy

11-01-2005, 08:42 PM	#8
o_ivaqual Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Europe, Front Yard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	As much as these are technically "root kits", I doubt they are or can be used as your traditional sub7 or BO. Their goal is different, and I don't particularly fear having a drunken SONY employee opening my DVD-Drive and displaying "OMG HACKED LLO" message boxes. However it is true that this is going too far. All this trouble just for "protecting" a CD is unexplainable. Have a second sound card, plug output of sound card playing the audio in the input of the recording sound card, voilÃ*. I'm sure there are even simpler ways of doing this. My guess is as good as yours, but I believe DRMs find their true vocation in data-mining. One of the most powerful knowledge in commerce is identifying and getting to know the habits of your customers. Knowing that is the key to marketing, and thus selling. DRMs can do that.

11-01-2005, 09:34 PM	#9
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Actualy, it gets more interesting in means of law... You could boycott any Sony producted CD's... or honestly, all CD's. The purpose may not only be to stop people from copyign and selling cd's but if people stop buying them as a result Sony will come around. Have to be a large scale Boycott though... probobly wont happen. Just a thought though.

11-01-2005, 09:38 PM	#10
o_jinx Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ohio Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	think you're definitely on to something with the data-mining, nagual. but that makes it spyware, and even worse imo... the big things to me are: a) it is not mentioned in the EULA b) it hides itself to prevent detection c) it cannot be uninstalled without borking windows I consider my computer a personal space, and this kind of this is no less an invasion of privacy than secretly installing cameras in my apartment.

11-01-2005, 09:55 PM	#11
o_vampiricus Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	how about some screens of the reg? pass on how to "bork" windows to rid of it.

11-02-2005, 12:14 AM	#13
o_jinx Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ohio Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	or even just go into your pc from your stereo with some stereo Y cables. if you can hear it or see it, you can record it and copy it...

11-02-2005, 01:52 AM	#15
o_someoldguy Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Just east of the jug handle Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Even nastier (if that is possible) than this idiocy by Sony... This particular rootkit can allow other software to use it's "cloaking" to hide themselves too: http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=919

11-02-2005, 09:17 PM	#17
o_xstioph Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sweden Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I quit buying cd's when I couldn't play Green Day - Warning on my computer... This do not make me regret... n00bs hehe, not a very good strategy to get more customers, not non-stupid ones anyway.

11-02-2005, 09:31 PM	#18
o_ivaqual Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Europe, Front Yard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Pretty cool. I mean, I'm not happy that people can (amongst other things) more easily cheat at WOW, but the next days/weeks are likely to be very interesting.

11-03-2005, 12:09 AM	#20
o_skanky butterpuss Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tampon, FL Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	fuck yeah at Cruor's quote. make these artists stop being a bunch of studio pussies and get out in the open air and perform!

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