03-23-2010, 05:35 PM | #41 |
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You are attempting to make it seem as though allocating funds is absolute power. This is factually incorrect; there is no other way to say it. They are not allowed to not allocate funds if they don't like you. They just pay doctors and other medical staff, someone actually has to manage the funds, its called bookkeeping or something in economic or accounting terms (I don't know exactly what the word is because I'm a biochemist, not an economics major).
THEY CANNOT CHOOSE TO WITHHOLD MEDICAL CARE BASED OFF POLITICAL DESIRES THEY WOULD GET FIRED. There, big capital letters, just in case you choose to ignore that again in lieu of paranoia, which you probably will. |
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03-23-2010, 05:48 PM | #42 |
mjau
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They wont answer that question most of the time.
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03-23-2010, 10:31 PM | #43 | |
Heartless Threadkiller
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When did this miracle start? Last I looked, the entire lot give fuck all about the Constitution.
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03-24-2010, 12:27 AM | #44 |
The 1337est
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I have a question that I don't doubt is naive foolish and will get me insulted:
Why is the Constitution considered some be all and end all? Why is this document written so long ago considered the pinnacle of human righteousness? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm curious.
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03-24-2010, 06:14 AM | #45 |
Stuff Do-er
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#FF.Pickup ยค Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington |
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03-24-2010, 04:09 PM | #46 | |
mjau
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Democrats could care fuck all about the republic and most of the constitution. Its archaic. If you cared more about the benefit government promises you than the framework laid out 200 years ago, that seeks to balance power - then it would not seem very righteous at times. So it depends on how you look at it. Another example: Right now the administrative branch basically bribed the legislative branch into passing a bill that was rushed through both houses that forces individuals and states to buy a product and deliver services dictated by congress. Some states say they cannot fund these services AND the clause in the constitution (commerce) Obama and Nancy used to justify their incredible use of federal powers is not appropriate and not constitutional (legal). So 15 States so far are going to sue the Federal Government. And I am behind that action, even though there could be some benefit to people in general. I say "could be" because most of the time our government tries to produce a benefit they fuck it up. For example, Obama had this person at the bill signing whos mother died because she could no longer afford health care. Guess what was promised decades ago to prevent this from happening? Medicaid/Medicare. I am probably the only one in the USA thinking Obama is parading around an example of failed policy, and he doesn't even know it.
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6 of the 10 richest counties in America now surround Washington D.C. Our "capitol" edged out Silicon Valley as the nation's richest metro area. Reality Distortion Field = 1. Stream the distractions: One percent, hoodies, and kony oh my. Last edited by stray kitten; 03-24-2010 at 04:11 PM. |
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03-24-2010, 04:50 PM | #47 | |
Hitman 2 1 Actual
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Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend. |
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03-26-2010, 03:01 PM | #48 | |
mjau
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First off - HE DID NOT CHANGE THE BILL, that would have meant he couldn't pass it last weekend. It was more important to get it passed than get it right. At the end they did anything to get it passed because they did not have the votes from his own party, but Republicans are painted the "evil" ones. Truth is last Sunday and even today. no one knows what the fuck is totally in this bill. Even Nancy is famously quoted: "We Need To Pass This Bill So You Can See What's In It." Try looking up something like seeing what it will cost you etc. After about 2 hours and a headache, as far as I can tell my insurance just SKY ROCKETED. If you weren't paying for health insurance you now have to by LAW or face the IRS and it could be between 2-4 and 6-9 percent of your annual income. NOT SURE YET. And I am not talking about looking at White House propaganda bullshit, the actual bill flipping back and forth between tax code, this law and that law etc, the old bill - the reconciliation house bill, reconciliation senate bill, the order etc. You say that is democracy? Passing a very encompassing law with promises of an order and promises of a follow up bill that neither was a guarantee. Without the dealing and bribery this bill wouldn't have passed and Obama knew that. Pretty slick he is. More cunning than I ever believed. I Just got up so the latest "fix" may have already passed. you might like it but I don't like 1/6 of the economy being manipulated in such a manner and forcing a government all encompassing national laws down my throat. But my point was simple you stated there is nothing in the bill that addressed federal support of abortion. And attacked those who believe it does as being dishonest. I demonstrated that even democrats have issues with the contents of pro abortion and Obama made a deal with them to get their votes. That is if they vote yes then Obama will sign a presidential order to ensure funding is controlled because THE BILL DID NOT. So perhaps what you stated was false and dishonest? That's all. People were bitching about Bush circumventing congress. But as long as the perception is "I" get some kind of benefit it's ok. And I don't know what you are referring to as having it both ways? And BTW, let's take this presidential order. How can a presidential order over rule what is contained in a congressional law? Is that democratic process? I haven't looked at what angle he is using yet. And this has nothing to do specifically with democrats or Obama, I made this same arguments with the patriot act and then the creation of The department of Homeland Security. By mostly the same people. We are pretty much fucked all around these days.
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6 of the 10 richest counties in America now surround Washington D.C. Our "capitol" edged out Silicon Valley as the nation's richest metro area. Reality Distortion Field = 1. Stream the distractions: One percent, hoodies, and kony oh my. |
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03-26-2010, 03:07 PM | #49 | |
mjau
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6 of the 10 richest counties in America now surround Washington D.C. Our "capitol" edged out Silicon Valley as the nation's richest metro area. Reality Distortion Field = 1. Stream the distractions: One percent, hoodies, and kony oh my. Last edited by stray kitten; 03-26-2010 at 03:15 PM. |
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03-26-2010, 06:53 PM | #50 |
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I agree. Within this context what other elements would equate to power? Violence or the perceived ability to carry out such? Given that power exerted via money is employed far more often than violence I'm OK with power and money being directly associated. To split this hair seems worthless to me.
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Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend. |
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03-26-2010, 07:43 PM | #51 | |
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For Christ's sake you people are almost as bad as the "911 was a setup" idiots. |
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03-27-2010, 12:18 AM | #52 | |
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Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend. |
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03-27-2010, 03:43 AM | #53 | |
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The only purpose of that response was to point out that this whole idea of giving the government some huge degree of power with which they can do insidious things is ludicrous, and based off paranoid musings. Not sure if that addresses the question, but it is the only point of my post. |
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03-27-2010, 01:52 PM | #54 | |
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Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend. |
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03-27-2010, 02:08 PM | #55 | |||||||||||||
AKA LittleAndroidMan
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Post from another political forum I post at;
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It will not extend the solvency of Medicare, it WILL contribute to the deficit through the 'Doc Fix', and over the long term, according to CBO. These are the main reasons why we were supposed to support the bill. It wasn't going to impact the deficit (Lie), it won't affect Medicare (Lie), it won't affect those that have insurance already (Lie), Perhaps most stunningly, according to the CBO, health reform will spike "in a broad range around one-quarter percent of GDP" which, using the current GDP numbers, is $600 billion. So in 20 years, our deficit will spike $600 billion, just because of this one bill. Quote:
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Basic economics here. Insurance companies care more about reaching that 'minimum essential coverage' threshold, rather than pleasing it's customers now. Quote:
Also, pharmaceuticals will always continue to profit, their profit margins are 22%. Back in December, Democrats voted against importing drugs from Canada (Oh right, the Democrats are LOOKING OUT FOR THE COMMON MAN) which would decrease drug prices, and further allow big pharmaceuticals to keep their monopoly on premium drugs. 33 million more people on insurance will mean more pills will be sold. Remember, Pharmaceuticals aren't being punished by 'health reform', they're going to massively profit. In fact, they're exstatic, let's hear it straight from the horses' mouths'! Drug lobby applauds 'reform' passage | Washington Examiner Quote:
Obama gives sugar plums to the special interests | Washington Examiner Quote:
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Oh, and another nail in the coffin, Harvard economist Greg Manikw puts in perspective the Democrats' magical accounting feats that allow them to claim this is 'deficit neutral', and then follows up by saying "my judgment is that this health bill adds significantly to our long-term fiscal problems". His analogy; Quote:
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03-27-2010, 04:42 PM | #56 | |
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Neither, because the opinion that letting the government manage the money is giving them some dangerous form of power is not deserving of that much esteemed treatment. If I attempt to learn anything from that point of view I might as well learn organic chemistry form an alchemist, geography from a person who believes the earth is flat, or internal medicine from someone who believes in the four-humor theory. |
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03-27-2010, 08:12 PM | #57 | |
Hitman 2 1 Actual
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Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend. |
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03-27-2010, 11:07 PM | #58 |
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I understand what he is saying, he explained it to me and other people several times. Having evaluated what he said, I am left only with what I have said already.
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03-27-2010, 11:15 PM | #59 |
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So sounding clueless about the opposition is just an act? Wait...scratch that. Carry on...you're absolutely right. Those of us opposing this are complete idiots.
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Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend. |
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03-29-2010, 12:40 AM | #60 |
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See, Ghengis knows his shit, or copied it from a post someone else made who knows their shit. While I approve of the some of the things this law brings to those of us who can't get good insurance, there are aspects that worry me as well. I am especially fond of the removal of discrimination in the medical professions where insurers can no longer pay less to one doctor in a given medical field than they pay a doctor in another for the exact same treatment.
Wouldn't it have been easier for the government to just set up its own health insurance provider and give everyone in the country the option to use it? They could have really named it Obama-care and everyone would have cheered! |
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