Developer input about maps

o_thugenstein · 01-21-2005, 09:21 AM

I just want to say, that I am a big Hammer user, and when it comes to making maps I am very festidious and like alot of detail and I gotta say you guys are doing a great jobs with the maps! I like the curves in the maps, along with leaving plenty of walking space like the original TFC. I also like how you incorporated displaced rock with the ceiling of the indoors of shutdown2. Just 1 thing is maybe you would want to make the maps abit brighter than what they are now. Because any sign of darkness reminds me of the failed Quake fortresses, UT fortresses etc. I think one of the best parts of TFC was the jolly bright eviornments.

Also, are you guys going to be the official TF mod for HL2? Or are they going to make a Valve built TF2?

o_ghost · 01-21-2005, 12:56 PM

Well, the dark feel of the maps in those mods probably came from the mother of all fortress mods, QWTF.

Also, Valve still is working on TF2 and it looks as if it could be released sometime this year. However, TF2 will most likely be radically different than TFC as it was meant to be a seqaul to QWTF (not a port, which means new ideas and gameplay). What Valve hasn't comfirmed yet is the existance of a port of TFC to HL2, probably named TFC:S. This is probably what you were thinking of when you said TF2.

o_storm · 01-21-2005, 01:05 PM

Ghost almost all of that post is conjecture, internet fallacy or internet ignorethefactacy. Just thought I would let you know.

o_geforce · 01-21-2005, 01:10 PM

Somehow, TFC has that little somthing that no other game adopts. When you first started playing this game it was so warming and pleasant! Probably due to map design, colours & effects etc.

At times I've played Q3/Q3F/RTCW(Clanned)/JediKnight2(Clanned ahah) during my 6 years of TFC.

Most of which, bar JK2 are dark maps, depressing.. I never feel like going back to play them over TFC.

But then I like the idea of FF being aged compared to TFC. Its like TFC in the future, omg its so exciting

o_ghost · 01-21-2005, 01:42 PM

Hence the key words "probably" "most likely", "looks as if." Obviously there has not been really any concrete proof on the matter but I have been following the development (or lack there of in some people's eyes) of TF2 since before HL was released and it was slated to be a pay for addition to HL. All the info we have on TF2 suggests it will probably not be like TFC at all. While TF2 might have changed drastically from those E3 videos back in 1999 I will bet any amount of money it won't be just TFC with better graphics. Oh and the part about TF2 potentially being released this year comes from interviews with Valve within the past couple months.

I posted since many people seem to interchange the terms TFC2, TF2, and TFC:S when they don't mean the same thing at all. Just as an example, Valve created CS:S. This was a port of CS to the Source engine. The gameplay is roughly the same. CS2 on the otherhand refers to a sequal of the original CS with diferences and advances in gameplay. Using this same formula, TF2 (Team Fortress 2) implies that it is a sequal to TF (Team Fortress) and not one to TFC (Team Fortress Classic). Whereas TFC:S is a port of TFC onto the Source engine. For those of you who think TFC started it all, go check out http://www.planetfortress.com/tf/gameinfo/about.shtml

o_storm · 01-21-2005, 01:49 PM

I dont think anyone here thinks TFC started it all

o_ghost · 01-21-2005, 02:22 PM

Alright, maybe not here, but on the cats it seems like some people don't grasp that fact.

As for the dark maps it's just how most of them were back in TF for Quake. Looking back I do prefer the more nicely lit maps of TFC. However, there were some advantages for dark maps. It made it a lot easier for spies to sneak around. The corners of some of the old TF maps were almost pitch black and made for nice spots for spies to hide in. Course, they also made good locations for sentry guns

.

o_thugenstein · 01-21-2005, 07:44 PM

I remember I used to be such a G at placing sentry guns. I would find the most unpleasant underdog spots to put them and people would always get owned lol. Like it 2Fort, down in the basements I was able to get the sentry on the ceiling in between some rock lol.

o_eat · 01-21-2005, 11:15 PM

Lighting is one of the last things to be tweaked because the times for a proper rad compile are so high. Changing the number of bounces and tweaking the values in the lights.rad can make a lot of difference to the feel of a map.

Also remember that the jpeg command in HL2 takes a picture before the gamma setting takes effect so they often look darker than they would in game.

The mapping team is having great fun with displacements and also torus'. Torus' are buggy as fuck but they can be used in some circumstances. Once we get a mapping forum up I'll post some of the tutorials we have written for each other so you guys can learn some of our tricks.

o_returner · 01-22-2005, 12:10 AM

Looks very clean and professional, but I never played shutdown (or any custom maps, really), so it's not a very interesting remake to me.

By the way, I hope we'll see 2fort soon. It's the grandfather of all TF maps, after all (isn't it?).

o_vertical · 01-22-2005, 12:47 AM

wow, I thought just about everybody had played shutdown2... I guess "just about" covers at least 1 person ;P Awesome job on the map, It looks SO much better than the origional. When the mods realeased, i'll probably just walk through like every map going "wow, oooh ahhh"

o_rebo · 01-22-2005, 01:21 AM

You should give shutdown2 a go if you have a chance returner, its probably the most well balanced map in TFC.

o_psycho_soldier · 01-22-2005, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm

Ghost almost all of that post is conjecture, internet fallacy or internet ignorethefactacy. Just thought I would let you know.

Look at the TF2 site. http://tf2.sierra.com/

I know it has not been updated in a very long time but if you take the info from that site in recent info from Valve. They havn't given any hint that they are changing the original idea. So to me they are keeping the same idea that is on that TF2 site mixed in with the HL2 engine. Basically it seems like TFC + CS on the HL2 engine with other things. Nothing like TFC.

o_eat · 01-22-2005, 03:56 AM

I dont think anyone knows exactly what TF2 will be like or if its still in production, and thats why we're here

o_thugenstein · 01-22-2005, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eat

I dont think anyone knows exactly what TF2 will be like or if its still in production, and thats why we're here

Something needs to be done quick. We need to advertise hardcore! This could be the next CS. CS started out rough but with enough publicity got off the ground. The key to a good mod is a large community, without it it'll die. All of us must spread the word!

o_eat · 01-22-2005, 04:12 AM

If its good, people will play it.

o_hollywood · 01-22-2005, 06:02 AM

^

Amen dude. If the game plays great, people will come. With or without advertisment.

Thanks for giving me something to look foward to FF guys. You're doing this for nothing, and I think everyone who ends up playing this should give ya'll a hug or something. :P

o_storm · 01-22-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Returner

It's the grandfather of all TF maps, after all (isn't it?).

Its more like the Adam of TF maps really

o_psycho_soldier · 01-22-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Returner

It's the grandfather of all TF maps, after all (isn't it?).

Its more like the Adam of TF maps really

Agreed, which means it should die IMO.

o_sobe green · 01-27-2005, 03:11 AM

2fort isn't a bad map. It gets boring after playing it for so long though, I'll give you that.

01-21-2005, 09:21 AM	#1
o_thugenstein Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Developer input about maps I just want to say, that I am a big Hammer user, and when it comes to making maps I am very festidious and like alot of detail and I gotta say you guys are doing a great jobs with the maps! I like the curves in the maps, along with leaving plenty of walking space like the original TFC. I also like how you incorporated displaced rock with the ceiling of the indoors of shutdown2. Just 1 thing is maybe you would want to make the maps abit brighter than what they are now. Because any sign of darkness reminds me of the failed Quake fortresses, UT fortresses etc. I think one of the best parts of TFC was the jolly bright eviornments. Also, are you guys going to be the official TF mod for HL2? Or are they going to make a Valve built TF2?

01-21-2005, 12:56 PM	#2
o_ghost Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well, the dark feel of the maps in those mods probably came from the mother of all fortress mods, QWTF. Also, Valve still is working on TF2 and it looks as if it could be released sometime this year. However, TF2 will most likely be radically different than TFC as it was meant to be a seqaul to QWTF (not a port, which means new ideas and gameplay). What Valve hasn't comfirmed yet is the existance of a port of TFC to HL2, probably named TFC:S. This is probably what you were thinking of when you said TF2.

01-21-2005, 01:05 PM	#3
o_storm Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SCOTLAND (above England) Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ghost almost all of that post is conjecture, internet fallacy or internet ignorethefactacy. Just thought I would let you know.

01-21-2005, 01:10 PM	#4
o_geforce Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: England Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Somehow, TFC has that little somthing that no other game adopts. When you first started playing this game it was so warming and pleasant! Probably due to map design, colours & effects etc. At times I've played Q3/Q3F/RTCW(Clanned)/JediKnight2(Clanned ahah) during my 6 years of TFC. Most of which, bar JK2 are dark maps, depressing.. I never feel like going back to play them over TFC. But then I like the idea of FF being aged compared to TFC. Its like TFC in the future, omg its so exciting

01-21-2005, 01:42 PM	#5
o_ghost Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Hence the key words "probably" "most likely", "looks as if." Obviously there has not been really any concrete proof on the matter but I have been following the development (or lack there of in some people's eyes) of TF2 since before HL was released and it was slated to be a pay for addition to HL. All the info we have on TF2 suggests it will probably not be like TFC at all. While TF2 might have changed drastically from those E3 videos back in 1999 I will bet any amount of money it won't be just TFC with better graphics. Oh and the part about TF2 potentially being released this year comes from interviews with Valve within the past couple months. I posted since many people seem to interchange the terms TFC2, TF2, and TFC:S when they don't mean the same thing at all. Just as an example, Valve created CS:S. This was a port of CS to the Source engine. The gameplay is roughly the same. CS2 on the otherhand refers to a sequal of the original CS with diferences and advances in gameplay. Using this same formula, TF2 (Team Fortress 2) implies that it is a sequal to TF (Team Fortress) and not one to TFC (Team Fortress Classic). Whereas TFC:S is a port of TFC onto the Source engine. For those of you who think TFC started it all, go check out http://www.planetfortress.com/tf/gameinfo/about.shtml

01-21-2005, 01:49 PM	#6
o_storm Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SCOTLAND (above England) Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I dont think anyone here thinks TFC started it all

01-21-2005, 02:22 PM	#7
o_ghost Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Alright, maybe not here, but on the cats it seems like some people don't grasp that fact. As for the dark maps it's just how most of them were back in TF for Quake. Looking back I do prefer the more nicely lit maps of TFC. However, there were some advantages for dark maps. It made it a lot easier for spies to sneak around. The corners of some of the old TF maps were almost pitch black and made for nice spots for spies to hide in. Course, they also made good locations for sentry guns .

01-21-2005, 07:44 PM	#8
o_thugenstein Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I remember I used to be such a G at placing sentry guns. I would find the most unpleasant underdog spots to put them and people would always get owned lol. Like it 2Fort, down in the basements I was able to get the sentry on the ceiling in between some rock lol.

01-21-2005, 11:15 PM	#9
o_eat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Lighting is one of the last things to be tweaked because the times for a proper rad compile are so high. Changing the number of bounces and tweaking the values in the lights.rad can make a lot of difference to the feel of a map. Also remember that the jpeg command in HL2 takes a picture before the gamma setting takes effect so they often look darker than they would in game. The mapping team is having great fun with displacements and also torus'. Torus' are buggy as fuck but they can be used in some circumstances. Once we get a mapping forum up I'll post some of the tutorials we have written for each other so you guys can learn some of our tricks.

01-22-2005, 12:10 AM	#10
o_returner Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Looks very clean and professional, but I never played shutdown (or any custom maps, really), so it's not a very interesting remake to me. By the way, I hope we'll see 2fort soon. It's the grandfather of all TF maps, after all (isn't it?).

01-22-2005, 12:47 AM	#11
o_vertical Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA, KY Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	wow, I thought just about everybody had played shutdown2... I guess "just about" covers at least 1 person ;P Awesome job on the map, It looks SO much better than the origional. When the mods realeased, i'll probably just walk through like every map going "wow, oooh ahhh"

01-22-2005, 01:21 AM	#12
o_rebo Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	You should give shutdown2 a go if you have a chance returner, its probably the most well balanced map in TFC.

01-22-2005, 03:56 AM	#14
o_eat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I dont think anyone knows exactly what TF2 will be like or if its still in production, and thats why we're here

01-22-2005, 04:12 AM	#16
o_eat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If its good, people will play it.

01-22-2005, 06:02 AM	#17
o_hollywood Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	^ Amen dude. If the game plays great, people will come. With or without advertisment. Thanks for giving me something to look foward to FF guys. You're doing this for nothing, and I think everyone who ends up playing this should give ya'll a hug or something. :P

01-27-2005, 03:11 AM	#20
o_sobe green Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	2fort isn't a bad map. It gets boring after playing it for so long though, I'll give you that.

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