Source Multiplayer Networking

o_turbowolf · 12-30-2006, 04:31 PM

READ THIS FIRST:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w...yer_Networking

Quote:

The question arises, why is hit detection so complicated on the server? Doing the back tracking of player positions and dealing with precision errors while hit detection could be done client-side way easier and with pixel precision. The client would just tell the server with a "hit" message what player has been hit and where. We can't allow that simply because a game server can't trust the clients on such important decisions. Even if the client is "clean" and protected by Valve-Anti-Cheat, the packets could be still modified on a 3rd machine while routed to the game server. These "cheat proxies" could inject "hit" messages into the network packet without being detected by VAC (a "man-in-the-middle" attack).

I personally think this method may work in CSS because it's slow motion but... how imposible will it be to kill a scout flying over well carrying your flag? I'd prefer if it was client side. Yeah, it'll be easyer to aimbot, but those cheaters could also be banned by an administartor. Discuss!

o_sizeablessonic · 12-30-2006, 04:44 PM

I'm no programmer, so I can't say....

However, client side wouldn't be a good idea, it would be hackers galore, imho.

o_ginger lord · 12-30-2006, 04:52 PM

Client side hit detection is bad.

Very bad. You get false positives all the time, DoDS now uses server side hit detection iirc, so if you see blood you hit them. Initially it didn't iirc.

o_sabre · 12-30-2006, 04:59 PM

The hitboxes on DOD:S are good, miles better than CS.

mirvin_monkey · 12-30-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboWolf

I personally think this method may work in CSS because it's slow motion but... how imposible will it be to kill a scout flying over well carrying your flag? I'd prefer if it was client side. Yeah, it'll be easyer to aimbot, but those cheaters could also be banned by an administartor. Discuss!

Do you not think that it works fine in TFC (or whichever HL mods you play) as it is then?

o_fean0r · 12-30-2006, 06:53 PM

Yea it fine - not perfect but good enough.

In an ideal world it would be client side but thats never going to happen although eventually when the average net speed improves perhaps valve will change the interpolation code.

o_turbowolf · 12-30-2006, 09:19 PM

I love the way it works in TFC, but I don't know how it works, nor if it can be moved to the source engine. Is this possible? If yes, why did VALVe set up this messy system in source if it worked fine in tfc?

mirvin_monkey · 12-30-2006, 09:46 PM

What I mean is - this outlines pretty much the same way it already works in the HL engine and its mods (the Lag_Compensation link at the bottom of the page points to the document that was written about the HL netcode, so you can compare both)

o_twincannon · 12-30-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboWolf

I love the way it works in TFC, but I don't know how it works, nor if it can be moved to the source engine. Is this possible? If yes, why did VALVe set up this messy system in source if it worked fine in tfc?

The source netcode is fairly wildly different than the gold source (HL1) netcode. Sadly, all the changes (or moreso "sacrifices") were made for physics.

I'm always for unlagged, anyway, even if it's worse than HL1's. Screw predicting hitscan weapons.

o_fail · 12-30-2006, 11:52 PM

Source netcode makes baby Jesus cry when it comes to hit detection.

o_switch · 12-31-2006, 12:36 AM

If you do hit detection on the client side, what happens when two clients disagree?

It's basically a fundamental distributed systems problem, in which you will never achieve 100% accurate global agreement.

o_zaskar · 12-31-2006, 02:28 AM

Client side hit detection is worse, but now that I think of it will prob be how some of the newer FPS based/FPS Engine MMO's will be done. Cant see then using serverside, so much to track, and latency is gonna be an issue (central servers, instead of connecting to whatever local ones are near you)

o_nezumi · 01-02-2007, 08:10 PM

FPSs and MMOs already have enough problems with cheating as it is. Combine them and then make it easier to cheat, and you're just asking for trouble.

View Poll Results: Method?
Actual source interpolation, fakelag, etc, stuff	11	73.33%
Client side	4	26.67%
Other, specify.	0	0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

12-30-2006, 04:44 PM	#2
o_sizeablessonic Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewere in Nevada Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'm no programmer, so I can't say.... However, client side wouldn't be a good idea, it would be hackers galore, imho. Last edited by o_sizeablessonic; 12-30-2006 at 11:59 PM.

12-30-2006, 04:52 PM	#3
o_ginger lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Carlisle, UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Client side hit detection is bad. Very bad. You get false positives all the time, DoDS now uses server side hit detection iirc, so if you see blood you hit them. Initially it didn't iirc.

12-30-2006, 04:59 PM	#4
o_sabre Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Manchester, Uk Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The hitboxes on DOD:S are good, miles better than CS.

12-30-2006, 06:53 PM	#6
o_fean0r Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yea it fine - not perfect but good enough. In an ideal world it would be client side but thats never going to happen although eventually when the average net speed improves perhaps valve will change the interpolation code.

12-30-2006, 09:19 PM	#7
o_turbowolf Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spain Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I love the way it works in TFC, but I don't know how it works, nor if it can be moved to the source engine. Is this possible? If yes, why did VALVe set up this messy system in source if it worked fine in tfc?

12-30-2006, 09:46 PM	#8
mirvin_monkey Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cape Town, SA Posts Rated Helpful 8 Times	What I mean is - this outlines pretty much the same way it already works in the HL engine and its mods (the Lag_Compensation link at the bottom of the page points to the document that was written about the HL netcode, so you can compare both)

12-30-2006, 11:52 PM	#10
o_fail Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Source netcode makes baby Jesus cry when it comes to hit detection.

12-31-2006, 12:36 AM	#11
o_switch Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If you do hit detection on the client side, what happens when two clients disagree? It's basically a fundamental distributed systems problem, in which you will never achieve 100% accurate global agreement.

12-31-2006, 02:28 AM	#12
o_zaskar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NY Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Client side hit detection is worse, but now that I think of it will prob be how some of the newer FPS based/FPS Engine MMO's will be done. Cant see then using serverside, so much to track, and latency is gonna be an issue (central servers, instead of connecting to whatever local ones are near you)

01-02-2007, 08:10 PM	#13
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	FPSs and MMOs already have enough problems with cheating as it is. Combine them and then make it easier to cheat, and you're just asking for trouble.

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