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Old 05-03-2007, 07:27 PM   #21
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sigh*

Here we go again
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoKill----->
sigh*

Here we go again
This can be a civil conversation without this kind of melodrama, you just need to be grown up about it. Present your arguements and facts and agree to disagree if you have to, but if you have nothing of value to add then these comments are not helpful.

Edit: Spelling
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:38 PM   #23
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Yeah but this will turn into bullshit either way.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:40 PM   #24
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What he said, I been on these forum for so long and I seen it happen so many times but w/e I'll just keep out again
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:52 PM   #25
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Most human beings do have a natural born compassion and emotion which other animals do not have. It's that compassion that has lead many humans to believing that we are not animals. We are in fact no different than wolves that hunt in packs as far as nature is concerned.

Personally I do believe in God, but I really don't think that any human can full understand or conceptualize* such an existence. (*I'm pretty sure I made that word up, but whatever)

I'm kinda with Scuzzy though, on the mentality of athiests. They accept nature as their power, not god. Nature being the great equalizer. There is nothing any human being can do to fight against an ever changing world of disease, hazzardous weather, and changing enviornments. We just like the most basic of animals have to cope with nature. Survival of the fittest goes against compassion.

Think about it. When you watch those nature shows that have a wolf chasing down its prey. Do you feel bad when the cute little bunny babies get captured and killed? Do you morn for them? What about the wolf, if it didn't eat those bunnys, cute as they may be, it will die of starvation. Nature is the great equalizer.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
No creationism, no God
Wrong. Evolution can be combined with a belief in God as much as any creationist theory. Evolutionists just aren't pompous assholes who regard themselves to be God's chosen children, a theistic evolutionist regards humans as animals as much as any other creature likely.

My views on good and evil are that they are human concepts. I hate people who fit the definition of evil and enjoy the presence of (most) people who could be called good. With that said, I don't like to get into the right/wrong debate, it is stupid. It is okay to say some is wrong or right according to our system of beliefs but a true right and wrong completely violates the very laws of nature which are neutral and indifferent to the core. If God spoke to us and said "this is what is right and what is wrong" then sure, it made the universe it is the boss. Until the day we communicate with God, no such thing as true right and true wrong.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:35 PM   #27
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Scuzzy, a voice of logic.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
No creationism, no God
Quote:
Originally Posted by YomMamasHouse
Wrong. Evolution can be combined with a belief in God as much as any creationist theory. Evolutionists just aren't pompous assholes who regard themselves to be God's chosen children, a theistic evolutionist regards humans as animals as much as any other creature likely.
I stated that creationism in effect requires a God (to do the creating) and you said I was wrong, but then went into Evolution. Evolution can be a part of how God may have created everything, but that it is still creationism, isn't it? (Just not in the classic 7000 year timeline) I'm not sure how you feel I'm wrong here, or how creationism doesn't require a God.

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Old 05-03-2007, 10:09 PM   #29
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Atheism makes a criminal not.

Morals are not derived from religion. Morals are derived from what is socially acceptable.

Hey, let's bring in some biblical morals in here, eh? How 'bout we go out and stone some adulteresses! Or hey, I know, let's go kill the Amaelikites... again.

I am generally a nice guy, pretty much a law abiding citizen, and I would not harm someone without just cause. I pay my taxes, I vote, and I volunteer at a local church because my friend is a Pastor.

But I don't believe in God, and probably never will. Does that make me amoral?

BTW, I just brought this topic up NOT to start a debate but because I found the image of Kirk Cameron in a religious debate deliciously amusing. And remember, Ray Comfort challenged the atheists to the debate, not the other way around. This will be interesting to say the least.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
Morals are not derived from religion. Morals are derived from what is socially acceptable.
As I have said, this is the exact definition from an atheists point of view, Morals are just a concept made up by man. There are no "good forces" in the world or "evil forces" in the world from the atheists point of view. There is "following socially acceptable behavior" and not. Killing someone is just nature, nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
Hey, let's bring in some biblical morals in here, eh? How 'bout we go out and stone some adulteresses! Or hey, I know, let's go kill the Amaelikites... again.
I understand why you believe these are biblical morals, I disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
I am generally a nice guy, pretty much a law abiding citizen, and I would not harm someone without just cause. I pay my taxes, I vote, and I volunteer at a local church because my friend is a Pastor.
Again, these are all things Atheist do and I haven't disputed it. You help your friend because you enjoy his friendship and want to continue to gain what you can from that relationship, it brings you joy. You pay your taxes and abide by the laws to stay out of jail, perfect examples of an atheistic point of view. I completely understand where you're coming from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
But I don't believe in God, and probably never will. Does that make me amoral?
I don't think you've read the entire thread, I've already address this question. Please re-read my comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihmhi
BTW, I just brought this topic up NOT to start a debate but because I found the image of Kirk Cameron in a religious debate deliciously amusing. And remember, Ray Comfort challenged the atheists to the debate, not the other way around. This will be interesting to say the least.
From that perspective I didn't start a debate either, I made a statement that it was a very free way to live.

Again, you're taking this as I am attacking you when I am not in any way attacking you. I've simply stated the true definition of what atheism is and having a discussion on it. I'm not looking to insult you,

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Old 05-03-2007, 11:06 PM   #31
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Why are you so irritating/condescending? There is something about you that i cannot figure out.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YomMamasHouse
Why are you so irritating/condescending? There is something about you that i cannot figure out.
You're making assumptions about emotions in my messages, almost as much as my conclusions on atheism. I'm looking for intelligent, clear, and concise answers. If you don't want to engage in that kind of a conversation, don't bother attacking me. Read my messages, take time to understand the content, then reply.

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Old 05-03-2007, 11:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
I stated that creationism in effect requires a God (to do the creating) and you said I was wrong, but then went into Evolution. Evolution can be a part of how God may have created everything, but that it is still creationism, isn't it? (Just not in the classic 7000 year timeline) I'm not sure how you feel I'm wrong here, or how creationism doesn't require a God.

Scuzzy
Evolution is not a form of creationism. And the reason I brought up evolution was the fact that you said no creationism no God. In that order you are saying that anything beyond creationist theories(it isn't really a theory though) don't allow for a God. If you meant to say that creationism requires God you should have switched the two around.

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Old 05-03-2007, 11:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YomMamasHouse
Evolution is not a form of creationism. And the reason I brought up evolution was the fact that you said no creationism no God. In that order you are saying that beyond creationist theories(it isn't really a theory though) don't allow for a God. If you meant to say that creationism requires God you should have switched the two around.
That is what I mean, creationism requires a God. Sorry about the confusion on that point. I probably should have typed it "No creationism; no God" with a semi-colon instead of a comma, either way that's the concept I was talking about.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:50 PM   #35
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oh theres a god or a higher power all right, you can bet ur starbucks latte on that. the universe is too amazing for there not to be. i just dont know what it is.

certaintly isn't hindu/christian/buddhist/insert religion here however. thats man made stuff.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:55 PM   #36
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Buddhism is a non theistic religion, don't put them in that list. And to say you know for sure if incorrect as well, it is quite possible there is and it is compelling but in the end we are still sitting on a rock in the vast ocean of space and guessing. Your's is the same kind of guess as their's, saying that it is guaranteed.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:56 PM   #37
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buddhism still has deities tho. hence why its included. i get what u were meaning tho.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:29 AM   #38
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Atheism has always facinated me. In Atheism there is no good or evil, there is no right and wrong, there is no moral definition. Killing another human being is no different then killing an animal or an insect, it's survival of the fittest. They choose to either do something, or not do something, based soley on the immediate consequence of their action or inaction and how that can best benefit them. That has to be a very freeing way to live.
????????????????????????????????????

What kind of atheism is this???

You are probably finding him annoying because I believe he said that atheists have no compassion and base all of their decisions on their own interests.

If you want an evolutionary explanation of compassion try this: We are a social primate/ pack animal we have to create and nuture realationships in the same way as other social/ pack animals. We are also self-aware, we are aware of our own behaviour. We can feel pain, and with our awareness, we can appreciate (quite well) how others must be feeling when they are in pain, we can even share their distress, this is known as empathy. We can appreciate the situation of others with our empathy and we can then attempt to alleviate their situation too, this is compassion.

To state that atheists do not have compassion or that compassion can only come from religion is quite wrong.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:36 AM   #39
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I do not know why you guys are disagreeing with Scuzzy. Your morals are a social construct, not a divine requisite, according to the naturalistic idea of atheism. Maybe you guys are somehow thinking that because morality is not natural phenomenon that you are somehow not moral. I don't think this is what Scuzzy is saying at all.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:40 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Innoc
Allisvoid is citing extreme example and I think the implication is that it's representative of the whole. If that's true then he's wrong. There are troubling members of both Theists and Atheists and neither should be viewed as being representative of their respective groups. Each side has it's whacked out Evangelists.
i am not speaking for atheists as a whole and i am not claiming that this is how all atheists see this issue. the atheists i know however, think the way i worded my post.

this is also much how i think, though i do not label myself anything other than "Me." i am very sorry if anyone assumed i was claiming that THIS is what atheism was... one atheist is not the same as the next, yet they both label themselves atheists... hence my label of "Me" or my lack of a label. it works the same for christians... most "christians" i know "sin" hourly and then go to confession at mass every sunday to be forgiven for a weeks worth of sinning. why not just do what you want and not waste your time with confession or mass? so the priest says you are forgiven... what does he know? he's never met god.

i've been religion free for over 15 years and i am doing just fine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by puppychow
oh theres a god or a higher power all right, you can bet ur starbucks latte on that. the universe is too amazing for there not to be. i just dont know what it is.
puppychow wins the prize. there very well may be a higher power but he doesn't know what it is and neither does anyone else on this earth... they only believe.

if there was an ancient book written about a man with three legs and four arms and two heads and xray vision who lives at xyz, are you going to believe it after reading said book?

and i leave you with this ... this ... and finally, this.

time for some mary jane...
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