Sniper: Removal from CTF maps?

[zE]

I personally at the moment have cr_sniper -1, but.. it should be a matter of server owners to decide that, cuse if u take that off sniper from all ctf maps from all the servers its gonna be a less newbie friendly game and we dont want that to hapened i think. Theres plenty of servrs around there.. its just a question of picking one that u like.. sniper on/sniper off/ no rules/clanstyle/ff on/ff off etc etc..

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by betterschindt

and cnipers sure are fun to use.

Great if they are fun to use. They are the WORST to go against.

Here's my suggestion (from the beta forums):

Originally Posted by squeek.

I think allowing the sniper to move/jump while shooting and removing the damage charge and instead replacing it with a tag-length/distance charge (the longer the charge, the longer the radio tag stays on and the farther you can see the tag from) would be a step in the right direction. And get rid of the AR and replace it with something useful.

[TACO-BELL]

Originally Posted by squeek.

It's just that he's an annoyance and doesn't fit with the theme of the game.

Sorry Squeek, fact is, this is supposed to be a mod with a TF theme. Sniping is part of TF always has been. Since day 1 of this mod all you clan type people had the option of class restricting snipers to zero on your public servers. Some did-- and those servers were empty.

You should realize, that when people download FF, as a TF mod, they expect a TF theme and that includes sniper "annoying" and all. Thats because those of us who didn't whine on the keyboard about snipers but instead learned how to be sniper or deal with them, developed skills in the process and have had fun doing it. The push here with this dev group seems to be to make the most pansy sniper class seen in any TF mod ever, and for players who play sniper or anti-sniper, that flattens this game for us.

I know from in-game that some of the people in beta testing are extremist anti-snipers. How the 2.0 sniper class ever passed beta, and still has not been patched yet, just makes it look like this group will never produce a TF-worthy sniper class. Squeek's comment here just reiterates that.

The only suggestion I would make to this group is disable sniper by default on the server package, but leave in the 1.11 sniper with a method for a server admin to enable it. I'm sure someone out there will host a decent pub server with it enabled so those of us who like that aspect of TF/FF can have our fun, and the rest of the clan people don't have to get all your knickers up in a twist because of enemy snipers.

[TACO-BELL]

Originally Posted by squeek.

I think allowing the sniper to move/jump while shooting and removing the damage charge and instead replacing it with a tag-length/distance charge (the longer the charge, the longer the radio tag stays on and the farther you can see the tag from) would be a step in the right direction. And get rid of the AR and replace it with something useful.

So.. your idea is to replace the sniper rifle with a special rifle that does no damage and just radiotags enemies (temporarily) and take away the AR?

Jeez man you REALLY must hate snipers. I can't wait for 2.1.

Howabout instead of the AR maybe he could have a baking set as a secondary weapon and he could serve up chocolate brownies as +5 health snacks for other people on defense? Think about it! The sniper model could be modified with a little apron to go along with a little oven construct and it would look cool. Or maybe give him a collapsable chariot with flying ponies so he can fly above the yard and drop "radiotag nuggets" against the enemy too?

[caesium]

Originally Posted by TACO-BELL

...I know from in-game that some of the people in beta testing are extremist anti-snipers. How the 2.0 sniper class ever passed beta, and still has not been patched yet, just makes it look like this group will never produce a TF-worthy sniper class. Squeek's comment here just reiterates that...

i was under the impression the sniper as it is atm is basically just a temporary state to stop nooblets whining that snipers ruin the game for them while we all try to come up with a really good solution for the sniper that makes him fun to play and play against, effective and useful as part of a team, and still keeps all the ppl who love the way he worked in tfc/etc happy. i might be wrong tho

[v3rtigo]

I must admit that the sniper is a pansy right now but I can't say I miss him. While I hate playing sniper in FF for some reason, I did like him in TFC and could always respect someone who was a good shot. I'd like to see that back in FF, where snipers need to earn their respect rather than being just annoying. That means for me:

1. no hiding in bushes or crap, walls are fine (a la 2fort)
2. no huge distances like the yard in aardvark unless there are jump pads or something
3. Remove AR or at least give it clips or something to prevent it from being a mini-minigun
4. Reduce non-HS damage, remove legshots and allow speedsniping to it's fullest again. Headshots could even do double damage for all I care. Point is for the sniper to be a good shot and to kill by being so, not by spraying his AR or just wounding people.

[caesium]

i've just emailed my sniper idea to shok. i think it fixes all the underlying issues behind your/others' complaints (but mostly not in the ways you suggest) as well as making the sniper really useful and have a unique ability as part of a team on both offence and defence. let's hope he likes it and i've not just gone completely nuts penguin.

[v3rtigo]

Care to share?

[puppychow]

im surprised to see people bitching about this. IMO, sniping is much more difficult in FF than TFC, and thus less of an annoyance. I have no problem with a leet sniper making my life more difficult, as, well, i respect his/her skills. If i get popped a few rounds in a row, i usually say fuck this, change tactics and then bear down and make life more difficult for HIM for awhile.

Snipers are only a consistent annoyance when you are not being intelligent about your movement and route-taking.

[GambiT]

yea, and they choose to come in here and bitch and moan to the devs to take out the sniper, learn to snipe, or learn to dodge them, dont try to change the fucking game because a sniper owns your ass.

this shit pisses me off, alot of the ppl who bitch about snipers are crying because they cant make it to the enemy base every single fucking time they try. omg a fucking sniper shot me! take him out of the game so i can walk my panzy little fucking ass to their base without taking damage.

sooooo, after we get rid of snipers whats next? those fagot ass soldiers wont let me get the enemy flag, take his fucking ass out to!

improve your skills are move on, dont try to ruin the fucking game because you suck....

[myersjr]

I was gonna say, sniper is a good class. I dont like them and i dont play them, but think they add something to the game. Playing as a medic, its not as much fun if you have free run before you fly from your battlement. I dont believe for one minute that the sniper is ineffective on ctf maps. Ive known guys that could pick a person off out of the air on congestus, without being seen. Sniper definitely has a place on certain maps. Hunted being one of them. Even the classics..2 fort, Monkey, etc..dropdown..If the sniper is skilled enough, he can take out the enemies offence all by himself or at least a good portion. Of course, it depends on whether its 3vs3 or whatever. If he knows he got only 2 guys on o..He could consistently focus on one of the guys and hope that his D guarding the flag will pick up the other..he is only one player after all..Most of the time, you have 3 on d, 2 on O, am i right?? The sniper in conjunction with say a demo man and or solly, usually stalls the o team..pretty effective

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

I still like the Halo sniper rifle idea. Fast no-charge shots--damage is higher and accuracy is perfect while scoped, but lower and not as accurate while unscoped. 6 shot clip, 1-2 second reload time. Speed is still slow while scoped. Each shot dumps a 10 second radio tag on the person, so you can stack it up to 60 (assuming they survive 6 shots).

Locational damage only while scoped; 2-3 headshots should kill an HW. Fast moving projectile instead of hitscan. Fix the hitboxes so you can actually hit stuff.

That is all.

[GambiT]

but thats the problem, their fucking crying because they cant reach the enemy flag as easily as possible.

i've come across a few snipers who own me, i go sniper and still get owned, so i go a different class to combat them. i dont fucking come on here crying about removing sniper cus i got owned, i change my fucking tatics. the sniper is part of the game if he is dumbed down anymore than he is now alot of ppl will leave this game, me being one of them.

[SSCUJO]

CUJO here.... figured i would finally post my thoughts on this subject.

Those in charge of the game have decided to nerf the sniper into uselessness, which is it's current postion.

basically to continue on what TACO-BELL was saying, the sniper needs to be made playable in situations other than midfeild. the reason that people play midfield is becasue thats the only way a sniper can survive. make the sniper stronger, make the sniper have more damage, and you will see snipers startign to play inside flagrooms, and at front doors. Its not that snipers love to midmap... its that they don't have a choice.

you people complain about a basic sniper vs sniper war, saying that it becomes useless. well i argue that in saying that if one of those snipers is not there then the team with the sniper will have an obvoius mid field advantage. the other sniper is in place to slow down the killing of his/her teammates. you may think this is circular saying that a sniper is simply there to kill a sniper, but i've seen the same thing in clan and pickup matchs, where two players have been completely taken out of the match beacuse one is defending a secondary objective and the other is trying to get it. the fact is if a sniper can slow down the enemy offence for even 1 seocnd then there is a point to him.

some people are angry at the fact that a sniper can kill them instantly... well thats the snipers job. you need to accept that, there are many games that have weapons such as 'railguns' that will annialate an enemy in 1 shot, thats just how it goes, you need to learn how to play with it and how to play against it. that fact that a sniper keeps killing you is your fault as much as it is the snipers.

and finally, the usefulness of a sniper destroying an SG is invaluable, i've done a TON of offence 'runs' for my team, in which i eneter the base and take out an sg for my team. lowering the damge completely stops this.

if clan goers really want to make the sniper useful in clan matches, then you know what you have to do, nerfing it is not the answer. and if you don't want snipers in your clan play then don't have them... but don't nerf them in normal play. its like your nerfing the sniper as if he has become to over powered in a clan matches, even though he is never used in one...

the sniper needs fixing, and it needs to happen soon.

[myersjr]

There is nothing wrong with the sniper. He is powerful enough. Its all in the skill of the individual doing the shooting. Any sniper worth his weight only gives you one or 2 seconds to get out of his sight, or ur dead. As stated earlier, some can and will shoot you out of air. Ive had that happen a time or two. Even with strafe steering. Sometimes, you're gonna get owned..thats just the way it is..as a player of the medic class, i either have to figure out another way or change class and jam rockets up his arse before he takes me out..

[KubeDawg]

I think this thread is what the sniper class has needed for a while. Now it's completely out in the open, everyone's feelings are expressed.

Now let's focus on ideas on how to make the sniper a better class. Now I had posted the idea for the sniper to get some sort of proximity(proxy) grenade. This nade would look like a conc or something similar when you throw it, and after 3 beeps, it activates, spring loading a bunch of spikes, similar to a ball and chain, without the chain. Then, it has a 30 second timer before it disappears, where if an enemy got too close, it would radio tag them for 15 seconds, or it could have some other affect on them.

I think the only way to fix the Auto Rifle is to completely remove the cone of fire, while lowering it's power a bit.

[GambiT]

from the beta section:

Originally Posted by GambiT

ok...

DECREASE cone of fire, make it more accurate

DECREASE damage dealt by the AR

i've said it before and i'll say it again, i'd rather be able to hit them and cause little damage than not be able to hit them and cause alot(although as is i say just decrease the cone of fire and its good, but im trying to meet y'all half way here)

Originally Posted by GambiT

3 burst fire is good and all, but if you do that you need to decrease the cone of fire, hell you need to do that anyway, it sucks unless you are RIGHT up on them.

Originally Posted by GambiT

also, yet again, PLEASE decrease the cone of fire on the AR, its crap, its a fucking joke.

[puppychow]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

I think this thread is what the sniper class has needed for a while. Now it's completely out in the open, everyone's feelings are expressed.

Now let's focus on ideas on how to make the sniper a better class. Now I had posted the idea for the sniper to get some sort of proximity(proxy) grenade. This nade would look like a conc or something similar when you throw it, and after 3 beeps, it activates, spring loading a bunch of spikes, similar to a ball and chain, without the chain. Then, it has a 30 second timer before it disappears, where if an enemy got too close, it would radio tag them for 15 seconds, or it could have some other affect on them.

I think the only way to fix the Auto Rifle is to completely remove the cone of fire, while lowering it's power a bit.

neat, but spamarific. ppl in pubs, including myself, would just throw that gren in front of spawn doors and violia - enemy spawners tagged. would be annoying.

i always thought, if there was a gren2, it should revolve stealth...holograms, camo, something. the sniper shouldn't ever be tinkered with to be more of a mid or front line fighter - that's simply not a sniper.

[Paft]

I do like playing Sniper but at the same time I hate it when I'm playing offence CTF on say 2fort. And am easily picked off over and over again.

[myersjr]

Originally Posted by Paft

I do like playing Sniper but at the same time I hate it when I'm playing offence CTF on say 2fort. And am easily picked off over and over again.

Thats when i would go another way or change strategy. If going another way didnt work and neither did strategy. Then you try a different class. If a different class doesnt work. Face it, its time to work on your skills...and im not meaning directly you. Im talking the player in general. Thats what makes these games so fun. You may get killed alot, but im telling you, when you finally cap that flag, knowing that you passed that sniper and the tough flag d. It feels pretty good. Cuz you know you did something..IMHO