Let's talk about Achievements. - Page 2

Lt Llama · 02-11-2010, 10:21 AM

I made some sort of home brewed levelling/achievement system for my tfc servers. Sort of a semi achievement system. From my experiences I see 4 differant abstract layers of achievement design.

Quantity achievements

For the grinders.

Quality achievements

For the high skilled.

Casuals achievements

For the guys who just pops in to have some fun. Give them a carrot to come back.

Turn the god damn achievements off

For those that really hate these kind of things. An option to turn the whole achievement thing off. Some hate it so bad that they won't play on your server.

With these in mind I think the players themselves can pick whatever they like.

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 10:35 AM

Achievements are indicators of progress. When you obtain an achievement, it should be an indication that you have mastered something new that makes you just a little more versatile or useful in game. If you can not obtain an achievement, the other achievements should ideally help you progress to that point. This is why quantity achievements fail. If I can do a quantity achievement once, then I know I am capable of doing what it asks for and have masted that aspect. So, why the hell would I want to do it 999 more times?

**Ricey** · 02-11-2010, 12:53 PM

Just having bragging rights sucks nowadays. I can see why TF2 had new weapons added. FF could do the same,just not the same way. No advantages, all it is, is a shiny new model, different colours, etc. No added damage, nothing super special.

Quote:

get 2004 kills as a scout? 1k kill assists as a heavy? That stuff takes hundreds of play hours to do normally. Wouldn't be an issue, except that you need to do the achievements to get new weapons.

Shit like that is fucking down right retarded. Every thing you do is a grind, no matter how you look at it.

Quote:

I think it's important to separate who actually defines what is an achievement in FF. You can't cater to a hardcore FF player's idea of an FF achievement, it may require traveling mach 2 while carrying a flag while infected, on fire, and being raped by a smurf.

Holding the flag and being raped by a smurf is hard.

I made sure I had all the armour sets in ME2, Gamestop pre order and Dragon Age sets. Yea, they gave bonuses, but I didnt get them for that, I got them because they looked dead sexy. NS2 did Black Models for everyone who pre-ordered the Special Copy. (I also got it because I was in a top clan in NS).

It may be basic, but it'll help people try doing a "TRIPLE AIR SHOT" Achievement, just to get a RPG Model that looks different then everyone else.

@Bridget: Some people just want to do it 999 more times because it is an Achievement,no other reason. People love them, it fills a void in a game. Before it was play it, stop, restart if you enjoyed it. Now it's, wait,shit,fuck,cunt,piss,ass,more random cussing, I didn't get that Achievement, god damn mother fucking cunt kicking monkeys.

The game will need enough Achievements and length ones at that so that they aren't all done in 1 day. Don't just like at it as, Insta-Gib a scout as he concs, but Insta-gib a scout in 2fort when he concs with the flag.

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 02:03 PM

It doesn't matter if someone can finish all the achievements in one day. If they can, then they either already had the skill required or they were able to learn really quickly. No matter how long or quick it takes, achievements should only be able to all be completed if you are truly skilled in as many aspects of FF as possible.

zE · 02-11-2010, 02:34 PM

I kinda agree with introducing this, almost all new games out came with this feature so : ) why not, i do like RooKie ideas for achievements : )

Lt Llama · 02-11-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

So, why the hell would I want to do it 999 more times?

Quote:

Once they have found a means to reach their goal they will be averse to tackling new risks and instead repeatedly play through familiar content. Sometimes players might actually enjoy repetitive tasks as a way of relaxing, especially if performing the task has a persistent, positive result.

From The wikipedia article on Grinding

Hard coding quality achievements only into FF is maybe desirable for some, but for the majority of pubbers I don't think so. What is FF mainly? An e-sport aspiring game or a relaxation for a large group of people or both? I'm sure both groups can be satisfied. I wouldn't mind the quality achievements to be cooler though

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 03:07 PM

Why make it an achievement though?

Credge · 02-11-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Why make it an achievement though?

Why not?

It's not like an achievement that says "Jump 1,000,000 times" is a bad thing.

If achievements could all be obtainable in normal play in a few sittings then there isn't any point. It doesn't actually promote structured play, they just occur and everybody has them and that's it.

When you create goals with a specific idea in mind for how someone is supposed to behave, you create the idea that such behavior is preferred. This is sort of why TF2 achievements fail for the most part. They have you do things that you wouldn't normally do.

Jumping 1,000,000 times gets people to jump. Jumping is pivotal to bunny hopping in this game. And while it might take a long time to reach 1,000,000 jumps it's nothing that you're supposed to actively go after. It just happens after playing.

That's the idea of a good achievement. Something that happens during normal play. Grindy doesn't fit in if you're having fun and there's no reward. A grind is something that isn't fun. If playing FF isn't fun then achievements revolving around FF, no matter what they are, are not fun and thus grindy by nature.

If FF is fun, they can not be grindy, especially when there's no reward at the end.

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 05:43 PM

Well, I think there could be better ways to get people to do things instead of having them repeat lesser things over and over some x thousand times hoping it adds up.

eomoyaff · 02-11-2010, 06:11 PM

Let's not talk about achievements as it's really too early to even be thinking about it in the first place. I disagree with going this direction anyway. You can add achievements to any game, but that doesn't mean it's going to make it better, or good. I really don't think it would do much for Fortress Forever. Plus you wouldn't really get any reward from it as it would make the game even more imbalanced then what it really is.

Btw Bridget, why the hell do you continue to talk up threads when your never in game anymore?.. It's like you played for a day, and decided to mention everything you disliked or wanted to change about it. You have to keep playing to learn to adjust. Get in game more.

NeonLight · 02-11-2010, 06:12 PM

I used to play with Bridget all the time before he had comp issues..

eomoyaff · 02-11-2010, 06:13 PM

Ah, That's the reason?. I wasn't informed. That sucks. Sorry Bridget :P

~adios*

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 06:46 PM

I don't see how these achievements make the game imbalanced if you aren't rewarded with something IN IT? There is no right or wrong time to discuss things. Eh? I usually make threads about problems. Who complains about non-problems? Anyway, I can't play anymore (though will again soon, hopefully) due to bad luck with hardware. I have played my fair share of Fortress Forever in the past, though.

The reason why I have been making a lot of threads lately? I decided to focus on the game instead of wasting my time on other subforums. There are issues people are reluctant to discuss unless someone brings them up. This game needs more communication between the public, beta team, and devs. The community needs something to do between releases. It gets boring waiting with nothing to look forward to.

Also, the public feel like they're being spoon-fed the game. They feel like they have little to say in the development. So it seems. I remember people bitching left and right about things that irritated them or coming up with tons of ideas, yet when asked why they wouldn't mention it on the forums or elsewhere, they concluded it was pointless and what they had to say meant nothing.

Credge · 02-11-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Well, I think there could be better ways to get people to do things instead of having them repeat lesser things over and over some x thousand times hoping it adds up.

I don't follow.

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 07:40 PM

It's like adding an achievement that says "Spam your rockets into the air toward an airborne target 1,000,000 times." and hoping eventually, they'll learn how to land airshots effectively. There might be more intuitive, interactive, and entertaining ways to teach people.

Sidd · 02-11-2010, 07:52 PM

We have a wiki, that's probably the best place to collaborate on a list of achievements.
http://www.fortress-forever.com/wiki...e=Achievements

Feel free to discuss what makes good and bad achievements here though.

Pon · 02-11-2010, 08:45 PM

In all seriousness, don't personally see the point in them. But, I know plenty of people who seem to derive some odd sense of enjoyment from achieving stuff like this, so I doubt they'd do any harm either.

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 08:49 PM

Styled + Updated with cheesy names.

**Elmo** · 02-11-2010, 11:16 PM

I don't have a problem with "as soldier kill 1000 medics"... if that's an achievement that keeps a person playing then I don't see it as a bad thing. Is that kind acceptable in your beliefs?

Bridget · 02-11-2010, 11:31 PM

I've yet to meet a person who would willingly do those types of achievements if there were no reward tied to it.

02-11-2010, 10:21 AM	#21
Lt Llama Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I made some sort of home brewed levelling/achievement system for my tfc servers. Sort of a semi achievement system. From my experiences I see 4 differant abstract layers of achievement design. Quantity achievements For the grinders. Quality achievements For the high skilled. Casuals achievements For the guys who just pops in to have some fun. Give them a carrot to come back. Turn the god damn achievements off For those that really hate these kind of things. An option to turn the whole achievement thing off. Some hate it so bad that they won't play on your server. With these in mind I think the players themselves can pick whatever they like. __________________

02-11-2010, 06:12 PM	#31
NeonLight NeoNL Wiki Team Beta Tester Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Boston, Mass Class/Position: Soldier, Medic Gametype: AvD Affiliations: +M\|M+ -RS Posts Rated Helpful 170 Times	I used to play with Bridget all the time before he had comp issues.. __________________ Stream(720p 60FPS) Recover Montage Fidd_l SpiderX Zutalors_B2 Quark_Classic DM2_MGE NeoN's Config Emporium

02-11-2010, 06:46 PM	#33
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	I don't see how these achievements make the game imbalanced if you aren't rewarded with something IN IT? There is no right or wrong time to discuss things. Eh? I usually make threads about problems. Who complains about non-problems? Anyway, I can't play anymore (though will again soon, hopefully) due to bad luck with hardware. I have played my fair share of Fortress Forever in the past, though. The reason why I have been making a lot of threads lately? I decided to focus on the game instead of wasting my time on other subforums. There are issues people are reluctant to discuss unless someone brings them up. This game needs more communication between the public, beta team, and devs. The community needs something to do between releases. It gets boring waiting with nothing to look forward to. Also, the public feel like they're being spoon-fed the game. They feel like they have little to say in the development. So it seems. I remember people bitching left and right about things that irritated them or coming up with tons of ideas, yet when asked why they wouldn't mention it on the forums or elsewhere, they concluded it was pointless and what they had to say meant nothing. Last edited by Bridget; 02-11-2010 at 06:47 PM.

02-11-2010, 08:45 PM	#37
Pon Not choking. Yet. Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Scotland Class/Position: Demo/Def - Spy/Off Gametype: Anything but yet more fucking CTF Affiliations: FF.AvD [FF AvD/ID guild] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	In all seriousness, don't personally see the point in them. But, I know plenty of people who seem to derive some odd sense of enjoyment from achieving stuff like this, so I doubt they'd do any harm either. __________________ Support FF: YOU GUYS REALLY SHOULD UPDATE YOUR STAFF LIST! I haven't posted since 2010... Preferable to death. But only just... -\ff_basicbowl\|ff_duckhunt\|ff_rock2_qnd\|ff_vats_koth/-

02-11-2010, 11:16 PM	#39
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	I don't have a problem with "as soldier kill 1000 medics"... if that's an achievement that keeps a person playing then I don't see it as a bad thing. Is that kind acceptable in your beliefs? __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999)

02-11-2010, 10:35 AM	#22
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Achievements are indicators of progress. When you obtain an achievement, it should be an indication that you have mastered something new that makes you just a little more versatile or useful in game. If you can not obtain an achievement, the other achievements should ideally help you progress to that point. This is why quantity achievements fail. If I can do a quantity achievement once, then I know I am capable of doing what it asks for and have masted that aspect. So, why the hell would I want to do it 999 more times?

02-11-2010, 02:03 PM	#24
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	It doesn't matter if someone can finish all the achievements in one day. If they can, then they either already had the skill required or they were able to learn really quickly. No matter how long or quick it takes, achievements should only be able to all be completed if you are truly skilled in as many aspects of FF as possible.

02-11-2010, 02:34 PM	#25
zE Pew pew ze beams Join Date: Jan 2008 Gametype: Gathers Affiliations: pew pew Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	I kinda agree with introducing this, almost all new games out came with this feature so : ) why not, i do like RooKie ideas for achievements : )

02-11-2010, 03:07 PM	#27
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Why make it an achievement though?

02-11-2010, 05:43 PM	#29
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Well, I think there could be better ways to get people to do things instead of having them repeat lesser things over and over some x thousand times hoping it adds up.

02-11-2010, 06:11 PM	#30
eomoyaff The Crowbar Commander Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Statesville, NC Class/Position: Anything. Gametype: CTF/CP (AvD needs fixing) Posts Rated Helpful 28 Times	Let's not talk about achievements as it's really too early to even be thinking about it in the first place. I disagree with going this direction anyway. You can add achievements to any game, but that doesn't mean it's going to make it better, or good. I really don't think it would do much for Fortress Forever. Plus you wouldn't really get any reward from it as it would make the game even more imbalanced then what it really is. Btw Bridget, why the hell do you continue to talk up threads when your never in game anymore?.. It's like you played for a day, and decided to mention everything you disliked or wanted to change about it. You have to keep playing to learn to adjust. Get in game more.

02-11-2010, 06:13 PM	#32
eomoyaff The Crowbar Commander Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Statesville, NC Class/Position: Anything. Gametype: CTF/CP (AvD needs fixing) Posts Rated Helpful 28 Times	Ah, That's the reason?. I wasn't informed. That sucks. Sorry Bridget :P ~adios*

02-11-2010, 07:40 PM	#35
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	It's like adding an achievement that says "Spam your rockets into the air toward an airborne target 1,000,000 times." and hoping eventually, they'll learn how to land airshots effectively. There might be more intuitive, interactive, and entertaining ways to teach people.

02-11-2010, 07:52 PM	#36
Sidd Lua Team Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	We have a wiki, that's probably the best place to collaborate on a list of achievements. http://www.fortress-forever.com/wiki...e=Achievements Feel free to discuss what makes good and bad achievements here though.

02-11-2010, 08:49 PM	#38
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Styled + Updated with cheesy names.

02-11-2010, 11:31 PM	#40
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	I've yet to meet a person who would willingly do those types of achievements if there were no reward tied to it.

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