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Old 09-18-2010, 08:03 PM   #81
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Yeah, let me up your access.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:11 PM   #82
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muhahaha, slowly taking over now perfect position to start abusing! haha
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:25 PM   #83
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:21 PM   #84
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I wanna make an FF map. Come on, Jesse, let's make something.

Or play some sc2...
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:32 PM   #85
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I wanna make an FF map. Come on, Jesse, let's make something.

Or play some sc2...
You're both JERKS
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:15 AM   #86
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I wanna make an FF map. Come on, Jesse, let's make something.

Or play some sc2...
Plz make skate or osaka. That is all.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:01 AM   #87
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All I've wanted to do for the past 2 years is work on FF in my spare time. But then when I come across spare time, I just end up doing other shit.

I think I finally got worn down by the monotony of a remake. Should have had more fun with new ideas and features when I had the chance to keep it all more interesting.

To be honest, I think that is FF's core problem. Never truly having fun with the cool ideas everyone had or specific features of the game itself. Always waiting for this or that until the awesome shit can be worked on.

Pure remakes can eat shit and die. FF is supposed to be about bringing TF to modern times, evolved into something more fun and appealing without losing its soul.

Maybe I'll get a chance to work on FF again at some point, but I'm done hoping for that. Whatever happens, happens. "If he dies...he dies."

I have no idea what everyone's doing right now. I used to keep track, but I haven't lately. I'm sure it's some good shit.

But the thing is, at this point, FF needs an overhaul and something different. Perhaps a sequel, haha. But not. Like, keep what it is now, but just branch off and make a totally evolved version FF. Separate mod based on the current codebase and whatnot.

Or not a full FF-clone-but-different mod, but maybe just a smaller side mod. Like a simple galcon-like RTS using FF shit, or a 3rd person platformer using the class abilities or something. Maybe a short singleplayer campaign all about one class.

Just pump some life into FF without only focusing on the monotonous death that is core FF development.

I dunno, that all sounds crazy. Crazy awesome.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:13 AM   #88
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ah so this is why ff staff retire. now i get it. not asking for a specific but is this 2.5 coming out soon like in the next couple weeks/months or like sometime after christmas. not a specific as i know you want to stay way from that. but how close it is relasitcally. (as say a best guess.)
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:03 PM   #89
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Noone knows WiFiDi
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:06 PM   #90
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not even us
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:31 PM   #91
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2.5 probably won't be out any time soon. The development team isn't that active. They don't focus together as a team on one single thing; individual developers are doing their own thing. They have no idea what needs to be fixed (because they fail/refuse to acknowledge community feedback unless it fits what they were planning to do anyway), so they spend most of their time just adding new stuff instead of fixing old stuff, and most of the time this new stuff is unwarranted.

If they're not doing that, they spend a ton of time brainstorming or responding to threads with things like "This is definitely something we'd like to do eventually." yet, no offense, but we all know they will never actually get around to it. Sometimes, they do work together and roll out some new change at a quick pace for testing, but eventually they get caught up in another idea they have and abandon all the other work-in-progress for said idea, which is usually a waste of time, resource, and is subject to the same eventual neglect over another "shot in the dark" implementation they imagine will fix something.

I know this sounds like I'm being a dick, but it's just my observation. The development environment is boring. You guys have no direction, no incentive to please your consumer (probably because of zero profit motive), and as a result, the game suffers. Patches get released once a year. They address only minor problems. The vicious cycle of the knowledge problem continues. Another year of development played "in the dark" with poor allocation of resources due to not knowing (whether out of genuine ignorance or willful stubbornness) what your consumer desires or has complaints about.

I think that's the heart of the matter, though. You guys are full of yourselves. You are stubborn and unwilling to consider the community because you're the development team. You made this game, so you should know what's good or bad for it, right? What does the community know? Nothing; They're stupid. Yeah, I'm sure Stalin thought the same when he was bringing about happiness and rainbows in the Soviet utopia.

lol

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Old 09-25-2010, 07:49 PM   #92
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Mr. Community, could you create a list of changes the community wants?
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:28 PM   #93
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I'm one stick in a bundle. Why not create a thread on it? Here's a (short) list of priorities I have ironed out just by going through my own list and the general/projects forum.
  • Fix the Engineer, which has been consistently gimped since I started playing in 08.
  • Fix the Heavy, which doesn't do as much damage as expected when your enemy is in your face.
  • Make the Medic a more viable healer, though this can be done indirectly instead of directly.
  • Simplify the game, get rid of redundancies like armor, finite ammunition, and managing a dozen weapons.
  • Make the game more accessible for beginners. Implement "stepping stone" mechanics; add tutorials
  • Stop washing FF down the drain with appeals to tradition. (If I want to play TFC, I'll go play TFC.)
  • Do something with the Sniper, so he's fun to play against not only fun to play. (OR JUST REMOVE IT IMO)
  • Make the Pyro more viable, instead of a deathmatch class. Make him fun to play against. (imo remove afterburn; make flamethrower powerful but highly risky to use; give super shotgun)
  • Make development more transparent; consider the community more; allow them to participate more.
  • Make competitive play more accessible to beginners instead of it being a niche community in some IRC channel.
  • Implement bots so that beginners can get a feel for the game without the demand of player vs player interaction.
  • Remove team-clipping, so you don't get stuck up on other players or their buildables while on the move.
  • (PERHAPS) Implement teleporters? They might be pointless, but people want them, because they were fun to use.
  • (THOUGH, I THINK IT'S POINTLESS) Port the game to the Orangebox Engine. Which leads to the following benefits:
  • (TRIVIAL) Increase the polish on the game. Make it look better. Make it flow better. Less graphical lag? ETC
  • (NOT NECESSARY, BUT EDUCATIONAL POTENTIAL) Add optional achievements *WITHOUT* advantageous rewards.
  • Increase the defense's interaction potential so that offense doesn't trample them in AVD or IVD.
  • Get Fortress Forever on Steamworks. I was told it can be done at any time, but hasn't. So, why wait?
  • Rid of/fix cheap mechanics like EMPS through walls, instagib, perma-infection, afterburn, legshots, dizziness, radio-tag, etc
  • Reduce grenade spam. imo: Give every class frags on primary; make secondaries non-combative utility nades. Set global limits. (2-1)
  • Implement auto-balance to keep the teams in line instead of having to play 12-5 AVD or IVD in pubs e'r'day
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:06 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
I'm one stick in a bundle. Why not create a thread on it? Here's a (short) list of priorities I have ironed out just by going through my own list and the general/projects forum.
  • Fix the Engineer, which has been consistently gimped since I started playing in 08.
  • Fix the Heavy, which doesn't do as much damage as expected when your enemy is in your face.
  • Make the Medic a more viable healer, though this can be done indirectly instead of directly.
  • Simplify the game, get rid of redundancies like armor, finite ammunition, and managing a dozen weapons.
  • Make the game more accessible for beginners. Implement "stepping stone" mechanics; add tutorials
  • Stop washing FF down the drain with appeals to tradition. (If I want to play TFC, I'll go play TFC.)
  • Do something with the Sniper, so he's fun to play against not only fun to play. (OR JUST REMOVE IT IMO)
  • Make the Pyro more viable, instead of a deathmatch class. Make him fun to play against. (imo remove afterburn; make flamethrower powerful but highly risky to use; give super shotgun)
  • Make development more transparent; consider the community more; allow them to participate more.
  • Make competitive play more accessible to beginners instead of it being a niche community in some IRC channel.
  • Implement bots so that beginners can get a feel for the game without the demand of player vs player interaction.
  • Remove team-clipping, so you don't get stuck up on other players or their buildables while on the move.
  • (PERHAPS) Implement teleporters? They might be pointless, but people want them, because they were fun to use.
  • (THOUGH, I THINK IT'S POINTLESS) Port the game to the Orangebox Engine. Which leads to the following benefits:
  • (TRIVIAL) Increase the polish on the game. Make it look better. Make it flow better. Less graphical lag? ETC
  • (NOT NECESSARY, BUT EDUCATIONAL POTENTIAL) Add optional achievements *WITHOUT* advantageous rewards.
  • Increase the defense's interaction potential so that offense doesn't trample them in AVD or IVD.
  • Get Fortress Forever on Steamworks. I was told it can be done at any time, but hasn't. So, why wait?
  • Rid of/fix cheap mechanics like EMPS through walls, instagib, perma-infection, afterburn, legshots, dizziness, radio-tag, etc
  • Reduce grenade spam. imo: Give every class frags on primary; make secondaries non-combative utility nades. Set global limits. (2-1)
  • Implement auto-balance to keep the teams in line instead of having to play 12-5 AVD or IVD in pubs e'r'day
Almost every single one of those is either in progress, in a relatively finished state, or done...

Notable exceptions: Sniper overhaul, pyro changes, and bots.

EDIT: Plus, I notice that all of those things you also happen to want. Is this your wishlist or the community's?
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Last edited by squeek.; 09-25-2010 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:51 PM   #95
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Quote:
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EDIT: Plus, I notice that all of those things you also happen to want. Is this your wishlist or the community's?
No individual can know what every other person wants. As for the community however, I can say that gameplay-wise every patch in the past 2 years has gone the exact OPPOSITE direction of what I wanted. AvD has turned to shit and D has gotten weaker and weaker. So what does that mean? Here are some logical scenarios:


Scenario 1: The community is divided and a lot of people want similar changes as me, while a significant portion want the exact opposite changes I do.

A fair assumption, however if that were the case, there should have been SOME things thrown my way. D could have gotten weaker in some ways, stronger in others. It got weaker across the board, patch after patch, so obviously my opinions were not being represented. This means that if the community was in fact divided on this issue, obvious favoritism was given to one side, intentionally or not.


Scenario 2: My opinions on AvD and D put me in a very small minority.

A possible scenario, if for the wrong reasons. I've personally had friends try FF, enjoy it, then completely abandon it by 2.1 because D was so crippled. Many forum threads in the past suggest D issues were very controversial. A LOT of players have left, although their reasons probably vary. Evidence suggests this hasn't always been true, and considering how robust 1.0 was, it suggests that the original devs didn't think this way either. So if I am in a small minority, it's because favoritism towards one side has contributed to many people having similar views abandoning the game.


Scenario 3: I'm delusional and the game is fine and balanced and has been for a while.

An easy assumption to test. When I can play 30 random games of AvD and win 90-100% of the time I'm on O and lose almost as many while on D; or play I/D rounds that are OVER in under 3 minutes, that means the game is seriously skewed. This didn't happen in TFC and it didn't happen in older versions, so that means it's happening due to poor gameplay changes.


Scenario 4: The community may make for some amusing ideas, but in reality ideas are implemented only slightly better than random, which purely by chance, has led to heavily favoring the exact opposite of my views.

I've seen some threads speculating on this, but I don't know the internal workings of what happens at the dev level. This is a possibility, in which case arguing what the "community" wants is irrelevant.



So you can argue that Bridget doesn't represent the community, but it's become painfully clear that a portion of the community has been ignored or neglected for years. Don't get me wrong, 2.5 could be a step in the right direction, it's just frustrating that it's taken this long to get almost ANY concession along these lines.

Last edited by chilledsanity; 09-25-2010 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 11:09 PM   #96
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Also for what it's worth, I looked over Bridget's list, and I find the majority of it to be stuff I'm neutral about, with a few items I think are absolutely essential. It's certainly a better list than any actual changelog I've seen thus far.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:22 AM   #97
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I have no objections to Bridget's list, all look like sensible suggestions. Must have taken some time to write out - I think its a good list.
Glad to hear from squeek that all those things are/have been considered and are close to being implemented.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:29 PM   #98
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thing that gets me is it's ok for him to list his personal desire of game changes, but no one else gets to do that if they are different from his. like he is the only valid person in the community. with that said i agree with most things except shit like teleporters. I personally don't like D being progressively lamesauce, engy issues either. some of the 'cheap mechanics' would be quite hard to fix on a note.

anyway, everything considered
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:44 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
  • Make development more transparent; consider the community more; allow them to participate more.
  • Make competitive play more accessible to beginners instead of it being a niche community in some IRC channel.
  • Remove team-clipping, so you don't get stuck up on other players or their buildables while on the move.
  • (PERHAPS) Implement teleporters? They might be pointless, but people want them, because they were fun to use.
  • (THOUGH, I THINK IT'S POINTLESS) Port the game to the Orangebox Engine. Which leads to the following benefits:
  • (TRIVIAL) Increase the polish on the game. Make it look better. Make it flow better. Less graphical lag? ETC
  • (NOT NECESSARY, BUT EDUCATIONAL POTENTIAL) Add optional achievements *WITHOUT* advantageous rewards.
  • Get Fortress Forever on Steamworks. I was told it can be done at any time, but hasn't. So, why wait?
  • Implement auto-balance to keep the teams in line instead of having to play 12-5 AVD or IVD in pubs e'r'day
I kinda agree with those points.

And i would add, a server cvar of 0/1 of mp_autojointeam also and put bully voice on the rest of the stuff like medic request D :

And Plz dont simplify the game, get rid of guns and stuff, TF2 bri have 10 times more weapons avaible . P, about bots plz dont make it avaible to servers, it would only help kill the game.

Last edited by zE; 10-07-2010 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:45 AM   #100
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My 2c on listed suggestions. (for what it's worth)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Fix the Engineer, which has been consistently gimped since I started playing in 08.
BIG yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Fix the Heavy, which doesn't do as much damage as expected when your enemy is in your face.
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Make the Medic a more viable healer, though this can be done indirectly instead of directly.
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Simplify the game, get rid of redundancies like armor, finite ammunition, and managing a dozen weapons.
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Make the game more accessible for beginners. Implement "stepping stone" mechanics; add tutorials
On the fence. Depends how it's done.Too much "dumbing down" and you piss off the current player-base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Stop washing FF down the drain with appeals to tradition. (If I want to play TFC, I'll go play TFC.)
No. Not all tradition is a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Do something with the Sniper, so he's fun to play against not only fun to play. (OR JUST REMOVE IT IMO)
BIG NO !!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Make the Pyro more viable, instead of a deathmatch class. Make him fun to play against. (imo remove afterburn; make flamethrower powerful but highly risky to use; give super shotgun)
Maybe. On the fence with this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Make development more transparent; consider the community more; allow them to participate more.
Meh! Not a big issue with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Make competitive play more accessible to beginners instead of it being a niche community in some IRC channel.
Meh! Those who really want to will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Implement bots so that beginners can get a feel for the game without the demand of player vs player interaction.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Remove team-clipping, so you don't get stuck up on other players or their buildables while on the move.
BIG YES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
(PERHAPS) Implement teleporters? They might be pointless, but people want them, because they were fun to use.
Meh. On the fence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
(THOUGH, I THINK IT'S POINTLESS) Port the game to the Orangebox Engine. Which leads to the following benefits:
(TRIVIAL) Increase the polish on the game. Make it look better. Make it flow better. Less graphical lag? ETC
(NOT NECESSARY, BUT EDUCATIONAL POTENTIAL) Add optional achievements *WITHOUT* advantageous rewards.
Sure why not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Increase the defense's interaction potential so that offense doesn't trample them in AVD or IVD.
Well give the SG it's push back and this will be fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Get Fortress Forever on Steamworks. I was told it can be done at any time, but hasn't. So, why wait?
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Rid of/fix cheap mechanics like EMPS through walls, instagib, perma-infection, afterburn, legshots, dizziness, radio-tag, etc
Yes to the first. No to the rest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Reduce grenade spam. imo: Give every class frags on primary; make secondaries non-combative utility nades. Set global limits. (2-1)
No. Don't like gren spam go play TF2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
Implement auto-balance to keep the teams in line instead of having to play 12-5 AVD or IVD in pubs e'r'day
Yes but, tough to implement. Nothing more annoying than being the first to join say "red" play your butt off to put the red team in a winning position and you then get auto changed to balance teams.
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