My thoughts on soldier class, movement, satori

o_verson777 · 05-07-2006, 11:44 AM

Years ago when I played Mplayer Quake TF, a soldier had to utilize movement to defeat their opponent not just sheer aim. But then again that brand of soldier could run circles around the TFC soldier. I do realize that movement is a part of playing a soldier in TFC, but aiming is emphasized much more since the character is just too slow to make movement a significant factor.

I believe there is something to be said about deep movement skills. Back in Mplayer QTF I could shake and bake my opponents with dazzling maneuvers and finish them off with some well placed rockets. It was a sight to see. I haven't played anything like it since. Not that I want an exact duplicate of that game type mind you. It had its flaws. Because if the soldier was that fast you can just imagine the pyro and medics and the scouts...

That game brought out the best in me. Through it I could express myself and achieve a higher state of performance. We all get that feeling sometimes like we're in "the zone" where we don't care if we win or lose. For a moment we forget ourselves and just totally focus on the task at hand. This is known to some as the state of Satori. I'm still seeking the game that helps me to achieve that state again. We could all use a little Satori if you ask me.

o_mescalito · 05-07-2006, 11:49 AM

I dig the sig ^

o_id_ · 05-07-2006, 12:17 PM

i agree, we could all use a little satori. i think youll find that with the changes happening with the bhop system in FF, youll be pretty pleased with the outcome.

o_nezumi · 05-07-2006, 02:55 PM

I call that state 'Danger brothers'. Like, when you're moving as fast as you can and are physically incapable of making a mistake. And you can see 5 seconds into the future.

o_verson777 · 05-07-2006, 03:47 PM

Me and my brother refer to it as being "Powered-Up" for obvious reasons.

I love it when me and my opponent are both energized. Then it is a true battle since you are both fighting at your utmost. A fierce contest ensues between two opponents in that state. And yet neither of them is concerned about winning so much as reveling in their inherent power.

The loser of such a battle does not perish in vain for he takes his place in the hallowed Halls of Valhalla where all legendary warriors reside...just joking

o_docwolfe · 05-09-2006, 07:25 AM

Its called being in the "zone"

o_bokko · 05-09-2006, 07:39 AM

The soldier is not meant to pull of awesome moves, that's what the lighter classes are for. This is their advantage over the heavier classes, changing that would probably screw up the gameplay pretty badly.

o_sacred · 05-09-2006, 09:45 AM

I dunno the soldier definately isn't meant to pull off fast paced moves as bokko just said, but that still leaves him with a lot of options movement wise.

I think there is quite a lot of psychology in some situations for the soldier. For example, another enemy soldier moving down the spiral, ok so if you have a wallhack this is easy :P

But if not then you either charge up the spiral and just hammer him, or you can try and predict through outguessing or sounds when he is about to come around the corner.

I always use to think I was quite good at this and would wait right at the bottom spiral and with no sounds just rape medics and soldiers without seeing them, (no wallhack :P). Though this was still based on communications from the top spiral soldier, and could go horribly wrong at times, leaving you with no rockets and a couple of angry medics coming at you

[go Bluppie go :P]

You can work out approximately what the soldier will do, you know he will be in a rush because a) the top spiral soldier is coming over the balcony or b) the top spl sol is right behind him having been spawned at the near respawn.

You can then assume he will want to kill you very fast, ie will use his grenades as fast as possible. If you then show yourself top spiral and you are playing vs someone not too good, the most likely thing he will do is prime a gren and chase you down the spiral. Then by keeping him one corner behind you, and at a slow speed down the spiral, by firing 1 rocket and reloading, you can have him reach the bottom spiral with no grenades and maybe only 2 rockets.

Neither of you have done any damage but you have given your top spiral sol time and lowered the amount of damage he can do to you drastically by removing his grenades. I still think the most important thing for the basement soldier on 2fort is to stay alive, so using this tactic, when you engage the soldier the fight is over very quickly and you are ready for any medics that might be behind him.

o_bully · 05-09-2006, 10:05 AM

and just incase you get hurt !

o_ekse · 05-09-2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bokko

The soldier is not meant to pull of awesome moves, that's what the lighter classes are for. This is their advantage over the heavier classes, changing that would probably screw up the gameplay pretty badly.

im sure every etf/qwtf player would disagree with you there. a good offense soldier can pull out crazy highspeed rocket/grenjumps in etf. and the balance works there too.

why shouldnt the soldier be able to do crazy moves. he always loses health/armor when he rocket/grenjumps and by this he gets weaker. so he can decide slow+powerfull or fast/weak.

it should be the perfect allround class.

i dont see how this will screw up the gameplay.

o_tercel · 05-09-2006, 12:12 PM

this thread actually brings up a good point. i would say *MAYBE* increase the general speed of each class very slightly. then again, that would completely change the pace of the game so i think it would be hard to change class speeds and keep TFC type gameplay.

o_ghost · 05-09-2006, 12:16 PM

Ah, but it isn't TFC gameplay that is trying to be achieved, it's FF gameplay.

Jiggles · 05-09-2006, 03:11 PM

I'd be surprised if the FF soldier is significantly different than the TFC one. Minor speed increases on rockets and movement, maybe, but nothing huge.

o_bokko · 05-09-2006, 03:26 PM

ekse, I know they will disagree because this is true for tf gameplay with uncapped bunnyhop. I don't think o sols were used as frequently as in TF when tfc had uncapped bhopping but anyway. A positive change that came with the bhop cap was that the classes were more balanced in terms of movement. I know this will seem crap to all the TF'ers but really, it did improve the gameplay.

The sol shouldn't be useless on offy, but not common either. He's the most effective defender when played right, just leave it at that or there's gonna be class balance issues. But with the 'elastic' bunnyhop cap I doubt this will become a problem anyway. I'm not sure but I think the original poster wants to increase the running speed of the soldier in comparison to other classes (This is the same guy who posted a while back about slowing down projectiles and increasing running speeds btw).... I disagree.

o_rannibunny · 05-09-2006, 04:21 PM

satori ? Nah, it's actually the "royal groove" ^_^

I really hope the FF bunnyhopping will make the soldier the standard class that's usefull in both off and def again ^_^

o_cap · 05-10-2006, 06:23 AM

Let's give the soldier a spy-knife, and possibly the ability to build an sg...just up to level 2 though lolz11!11!1 "Perfect all-rounder class, yes!"

Don't get me started on the copout that is the soldier class. If not drastically reduced in power, keep it as is.

-Cap

o_ekse · 05-10-2006, 09:48 AM

well, you got it ...

Circuitous · 05-10-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mescalito

I dig the sig ^

What's odd is, after reading this, I went to school, and my mom left the oldies station on. And the song that's from came on first. Wild.

05-07-2006, 11:44 AM	#1
o_verson777 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	My thoughts on soldier class, movement, satori Years ago when I played Mplayer Quake TF, a soldier had to utilize movement to defeat their opponent not just sheer aim. But then again that brand of soldier could run circles around the TFC soldier. I do realize that movement is a part of playing a soldier in TFC, but aiming is emphasized much more since the character is just too slow to make movement a significant factor. I believe there is something to be said about deep movement skills. Back in Mplayer QTF I could shake and bake my opponents with dazzling maneuvers and finish them off with some well placed rockets. It was a sight to see. I haven't played anything like it since. Not that I want an exact duplicate of that game type mind you. It had its flaws. Because if the soldier was that fast you can just imagine the pyro and medics and the scouts... That game brought out the best in me. Through it I could express myself and achieve a higher state of performance. We all get that feeling sometimes like we're in "the zone" where we don't care if we win or lose. For a moment we forget ourselves and just totally focus on the task at hand. This is known to some as the state of Satori. I'm still seeking the game that helps me to achieve that state again. We could all use a little Satori if you ask me.

05-09-2006, 09:45 AM	#8
o_sacred Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I dunno the soldier definately isn't meant to pull off fast paced moves as bokko just said, but that still leaves him with a lot of options movement wise. I think there is quite a lot of psychology in some situations for the soldier. For example, another enemy soldier moving down the spiral, ok so if you have a wallhack this is easy :P But if not then you either charge up the spiral and just hammer him, or you can try and predict through outguessing or sounds when he is about to come around the corner. I always use to think I was quite good at this and would wait right at the bottom spiral and with no sounds just rape medics and soldiers without seeing them, (no wallhack :P). Though this was still based on communications from the top spiral soldier, and could go horribly wrong at times, leaving you with no rockets and a couple of angry medics coming at you [go Bluppie go :P] You can work out approximately what the soldier will do, you know he will be in a rush because a) the top spiral soldier is coming over the balcony or b) the top spl sol is right behind him having been spawned at the near respawn. You can then assume he will want to kill you very fast, ie will use his grenades as fast as possible. If you then show yourself top spiral and you are playing vs someone not too good, the most likely thing he will do is prime a gren and chase you down the spiral. Then by keeping him one corner behind you, and at a slow speed down the spiral, by firing 1 rocket and reloading, you can have him reach the bottom spiral with no grenades and maybe only 2 rockets. Neither of you have done any damage but you have given your top spiral sol time and lowered the amount of damage he can do to you drastically by removing his grenades. I still think the most important thing for the basement soldier on 2fort is to stay alive, so using this tactic, when you engage the soldier the fight is over very quickly and you are ready for any medics that might be behind him. Last edited by o_sacred; 05-09-2006 at 09:56 AM.

05-09-2006, 10:05 AM	#9
o_bully Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yorkshire, thats somewhere up north Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	and just incase you get hurt ! Last edited by o_bully; 05-09-2006 at 01:11 PM.

05-10-2006, 06:23 AM	#16
o_cap Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ugh... Let's give the soldier a spy-knife, and possibly the ability to build an sg...just up to level 2 though lolz11!11!1 "Perfect all-rounder class, yes!" Don't get me started on the copout that is the soldier class. If not drastically reduced in power, keep it as is. -Cap

05-07-2006, 11:49 AM	#2
o_mescalito Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Israel Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I dig the sig ^

05-07-2006, 12:17 PM	#3
o_id_ Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i agree, we could all use a little satori. i think youll find that with the changes happening with the bhop system in FF, youll be pretty pleased with the outcome.

05-07-2006, 02:55 PM	#4
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I call that state 'Danger brothers'. Like, when you're moving as fast as you can and are physically incapable of making a mistake. And you can see 5 seconds into the future.

05-07-2006, 03:47 PM	#5
o_verson777 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Me and my brother refer to it as being "Powered-Up" for obvious reasons. I love it when me and my opponent are both energized. Then it is a true battle since you are both fighting at your utmost. A fierce contest ensues between two opponents in that state. And yet neither of them is concerned about winning so much as reveling in their inherent power. The loser of such a battle does not perish in vain for he takes his place in the hallowed Halls of Valhalla where all legendary warriors reside...just joking

05-09-2006, 07:25 AM	#6
o_docwolfe Join Date: May 2005 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, England Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Its called being in the "zone"

05-09-2006, 07:39 AM	#7
o_bokko Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The soldier is not meant to pull of awesome moves, that's what the lighter classes are for. This is their advantage over the heavier classes, changing that would probably screw up the gameplay pretty badly.

05-09-2006, 12:12 PM	#11
o_tercel Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	this thread actually brings up a good point. i would say MAYBE increase the general speed of each class very slightly. then again, that would completely change the pace of the game so i think it would be hard to change class speeds and keep TFC type gameplay.

05-09-2006, 12:16 PM	#12
o_ghost Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ah, but it isn't TFC gameplay that is trying to be achieved, it's FF gameplay.

05-09-2006, 03:11 PM	#13
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'd be surprised if the FF soldier is significantly different than the TFC one. Minor speed increases on rockets and movement, maybe, but nothing huge.

05-09-2006, 03:26 PM	#14
o_bokko Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	ekse, I know they will disagree because this is true for tf gameplay with uncapped bunnyhop. I don't think o sols were used as frequently as in TF when tfc had uncapped bhopping but anyway. A positive change that came with the bhop cap was that the classes were more balanced in terms of movement. I know this will seem crap to all the TF'ers but really, it did improve the gameplay. The sol shouldn't be useless on offy, but not common either. He's the most effective defender when played right, just leave it at that or there's gonna be class balance issues. But with the 'elastic' bunnyhop cap I doubt this will become a problem anyway. I'm not sure but I think the original poster wants to increase the running speed of the soldier in comparison to other classes (This is the same guy who posted a while back about slowing down projectiles and increasing running speeds btw).... I disagree.

05-09-2006, 04:21 PM	#15
o_rannibunny Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	satori ? Nah, it's actually the "royal groove" ^_^ I really hope the FF bunnyhopping will make the soldier the standard class that's usefull in both off and def again ^_^

05-10-2006, 09:48 AM	#17
o_ekse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	well, you got it ...

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