2.0 First Impressions

[greenday5494]

how about do like the TF2's solly's nerf was.

[own3r]

Originally Posted by greenday5494

how about do like the TF2's solly's nerf was.

what was?

[greenday5494]

severly limit the amount of ammo you can carry (not clip, amount)

[pF]

Um. Soldier does not need a nerf. It's fairly hard already to play decent D with a 4 round clip that takes hours to reload.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by -pF-

Um. Soldier does not need a nerf. It's fairly hard already to play decent D with a 4 round clip that takes hours to reload.

Pretty much. Solly is the only balanced class in terms of how hard it is to kill him, how much skill it takes to be proficient, and the reward you get for being skilled with the class. There is no other skill where the effort and skill put in is equal to what is put out.

He is a little overwhelmed with the general speed of the game, but the core of the class is fine as is. Just make him reload faster than the other classes (33% faster is a good place to start) to make him have a unique feature (something he lacks).

Anyway, allow me to give my first impressions on 2.0 and then go into why these impressions have changed.

At first, 2.0 was great. I was excited about it. The HW having awesome spread and rate of fire was very cool and I was excited about it. While I was skeptical about the jump pad (for good reason) my initial response was that it was gimmicky, but neat. I didn't see it breaking games. One thing I did notice, from the very first moment of playing 2.0 was that hit scan weapons sucked balls. Even further, I was getting hit by people while I was around the corner already, something that did not happen in 1.11.

The medics new ability to toss medpacks was welcomed, but I didn't view it as a necessity. However, I did not see this breaking the game either. Explosion radii' where a huge improvement, and still is. I was also rather pleased with the 1.1 second blue pipe timer.

Now, however, all but one of the things I mentioned are reasons why I don't play anymore. 5v and 6v are the only playable formats (with 6v being slightly more broken due to scout/demo/medic combos that can break almost any defense on any medium sized map like monkey, sd2, and the plethora of other maps that are medium sized). Jump pads broke the main reason why seeing an offensive solly or demo wasn't common (but when you saw it, you felt the pain) and, instead, made the demo a class you would see just as much as the medic. This didn't help defense and only bolstered offense.

1.1 second blue pipes made the demo, on most maps, futile for more than just piping the flag while making him an unstoppable spam fest on choke points on maps like monkey and derive. It also made the demo an even better choice for offense.

The medics ability to buff his allies without him being around was pretty . This really didn't do much for defense and only bolstered offense. A medic could fully eachother to the point where they could survive two direct rockets and four shotty blasts at medium range, something comparable to the survivability of the soldier all the while not needing to stop to do this. Demos had, roughly, the same survivability while fully buffed.

Jump pads also made mirvs a common offensive tool.

HW's went from being 'ok' in 1.11 to gimmicky and redundant in 2.0.

Hitscans made using the shotty on defense disadvantageous as a moving target coming at an unexpected time as much harder to hit than a target standing in, roughly, the same area all the time.

The biggest reason I don't play FF anymore is the offense. The effort you put in does not match what you get out. This means that the opposite is true for the defense (the amount of effort you put in is greater than what you get out) on average. The game, also, revolves around SG's. No longer is it a game of capture the flag or defend the point... it's a game of destroying or protecting the SG. No thanks.

When will 2.1 out?

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Credge

When will 2.1 out?

When the game is balanced so that it is no longer this:

The biggest reason I don't play FF anymore is the offense. The effort you put in does not match what you get out. This means that the opposite is true for the defense (the amount of effort you put in is greater than what you get out) on average. The game, also, revolves around SG's. No longer is it a game of capture the flag or defend the point... it's a game of destroying or protecting the SG. No thanks.

[tu!]

i do agree about the sg statement.

[Circuitous]

Hitscan wasn't changed in 2.0...

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Hitscan wasn't changed in 2.0...

Yeah, Credge is just paranoid. SG balance is being tested extensively in the beta, though.

[chilledsanity]

SG balance is being tested extensively in the beta, though.

Ugh, so the SG is going to get nerfed?

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Ugh, so the SG is going to get balanced?

Yep.

[greenday5494]

the SG needs much better, smarter tracking, although.

[pF]

I hope the next update isn't going to be another one in a long line of O-friendly patches. Playing D has slowly turned into a chore.. should the SG's get taken down a notch now, i don't see how 6vs6 matches for instance will ever be any fun for the D half of the players.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by -pF-

I hope the next update isn't going to be another one in a long line of O-friendly patches. Playing D has slowly turned into a chore.. should the SG's get taken down a notch now, i don't see how 6vs6 matches for instance will ever be any fun for the D half of the players.

It won't be. See this thread.

[chilledsanity]

Squeek, you say the sg's are going to get balanced for 2.1. If they were going to be nerfed, then they would just be plain weaker.

Balancing would mean that some things will be weaker, some things will be stronger. What's being changed about the sg's?


Credge: I've also encountered the thing where I got hit after I cleared a corner (and had a good ping). I didn't realize it was a change for 2.0.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Squeek, you say the sg's are going to get balanced for 2.1. If they were going to be nerfed, then they would just be plain weaker.

Balancing would mean that some things will be weaker, some things will be stronger. What's being changed about the sg's?

So far it's completely undecided. We are getting the ability (in beta) to mess with pretty much all of the SG variables mid-game very soon, so we will see what we think is best. Right now it's looking like push will come down significantly, RoF might go up, damage might go down (to accommodate the RoF change), health might go down, and build time might go down.

But, it's all very much up in the air at this point.

[Jester]

You can change all the SG variables in the current release, not just beta. You can also change a bunch of other variables with classes and weapons. Type "cvarlist ffdev_" in console for the list.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Jester

You can change all the SG variables in the current release, not just beta. You can also change a bunch of other variables with classes and weapons. Type "cvarlist ffdev_" in console for the list.

Yeah, but not ALL of the variables. There are more being added/fixed.

[Skanky Butterpuss]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Credge: I've also encountered the thing where I got hit after I cleared a corner (and had a good ping). I didn't realize it was a change for 2.0.

nothing changed with the hitscan detection stuff. credge is just paranoid.

[chilledsanity]

Squeek: What's the reasoning for lowering the health? It seems like it's pretty easy to take them out as it is. Also I doubt the current build time is a concern for most engineers. I spend more time running around finding enough metal to build one in the first place (since the amount of cells for engi's on spawn has been lowered for 2.0) than I do building it. I think ground push is probably a little high, but air push feels kind of weak.