The rant about classes thread!

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by GeoKill

So some think the sg weak, others think is too strong... hmmm Engy is pefect then

Wow that's all it takes huh, one person who can't form a grammatically correct sentence making an unrealistic claim, then it's declared balance. I mean come on, it reads like a troll statement as it is. Since you say "some", who ELSE besides Mr. Happy thinks the sg has too much health?

I think you could clarify too. I even said in my post in the 2.1 thread, the offense feels a little too strong, while the life is too weak. So the sg isn't fun on either end. Is that the criteria for balanced? Just labelling it simply as "strong" or "weak" isn't very meaningful when talking about the sg.

[GeoKill----->]

Engrish not my first language
That hurts

[Tally]

"I usually just hide behind Teammates and heal when I'm a Medic. And this is close to my main routine when I play medic unless someone is specific that I go on Offense with Infection Whoring and Flag Rushing."

I actually think Infection Whoring has lost its meaning, too. It appears as if infections don't spread anymore. I don't know if the usual hitbox buggery is to blame, if it's a glitch, or if it's been taken out. Rather, it usually will just force a console kill or self-explosion out of someone.

I'd like to see medic actually fill its role for once... or at the very least, encourage other people to toss medkits. Because I am sick of being at 9 HP right next to a medic, and screaming for a medic... and he does nothing.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Tally

encourage other people to toss medkits

Yes.

[chilledsanity]

Geokill: I actually was referring to Mr. Happy with that statement, not you. I was questioning your logic though.

Tally: Infection spreading has been taken out since 1.1 I think. It's still a subject of debate since a lot of people liked it and would like to see it come back.

Squeek: I think he's saying that since the medic's main function right now is as a heavy scout, many people won't even bother to toss packs to teammates.

[Player]

What are you all talking about, medics do not heal?! Medics heal medics all the time!!!

[BoltR]

Originally Posted by Tally

I actually think Infection Whoring has lost its meaning, too. It appears as if infections don't spread anymore. I don't know if the usual hitbox buggery is to blame, if it's a glitch, or if it's been taken out. Rather, it usually will just force a console kill or self-explosion out of someone.

It has and it hasn't. In an completely unorganized pub it's not nearly as "fun" without the spreading. However, if there is some organization to the game it is VERY useful. If there is a HW or soldier who is causing your offense a lot of grief, you put a large amount of pressure on them by infecting them. They either wait and die letting your offense through, or they run to a pack to survive when they are low, letting offense through.
You just have to think of it as a tool, rather than a way to get yourself kills.

[Mr. Happy]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

who ELSE besides Mr. Happy thinks the sg has too much health?

Everyone who plays scout!

[MonoXideAtWork]

Ok. I play a lot of medic, and have been complemented many times on my ability to heal. That being said, there are times that I have refused to heal people.

Here are the reasons why I won't heal you.

1. You are being difficult.
I usually throw two packs per person, if you miss those, you aren't getting another two unless you prove that there is a reason you should stay alive rather than going back to the respawn. It's just resource management.

2. You made no effort to alert me to your status of health.
Medic is an offense class at heart. As such, I am usually concing about, taking out SGs, killing enemy defenders, flag running, etc. During these times, I am not looking at your health. I am timing my next jump, I am shooting defenders, or I am running the flag. If you need health, yell for a medic (Z) by default. If I am around I will make sure that you get two packs passed your way, and will call medic in return to get your attention, or I may address you over ingame mic.

3. You have no armor.
Health will only boost you so much, if I were to bring you from 9 to 100, and you get killed almost instantly, all that has done has hurt the team's progression, as I had to detour to heal you, and most likely if you just died, I'm next. I am much more apt to heal a solly who just RJed than a solly that is getting pelted by snipers and hwguys, the value for my services go up with the more armor you have left.

4. I am currently busy with a task that I value more than your current life.
If I am taking down an SG, or running a flag, the efforts I make to heal you are reduced to tossing out packs when convenient. It will be up to you to be alert and on the ball so you don't miss it.

5. You suck.

Sorry, but I have to say it, but, If I don't think you can stay alive, even with 150% health, you will not be healed. It just isn't worth it to me to heal every player I see without being choosy on who I keep alive.

5. I suck.

It happens to everyone, but alas, I am not perfect. I have missed teammates that I didn't see, or tossed packs to the wrong people, or I get owned before I can send out a little healing love.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by MonoXideAtWork

3. You have no armor.
Health will only boost you so much, if I were to bring you from 9 to 100, and you get killed almost instantly, all that has done has hurt the team's progression, as I had to detour to heal you, and most likely if you just died, I'm next. I am much more apt to heal a solly who just RJed than a solly that is getting pelted by snipers and hwguys, the value for my services go up with the more armor you have left.

This is one of the biggest reasons why a healing medic is completely ineffective in FF. This is also why the medic is more beneficial on offense as offensive classes rely more on health than armor.

On the flip side, the defensive counterpart to the class, the engineer, repairs armor... something that the defensive classes rely more on to stay alive.

I think there is a major misunderstanding of what armor type actually does in this game. Having a heavier armor type does not mean you'll take less damage - all classes take the exact same damage from the same attacks. All heavier armor types do is make a certain %'ge of the damage go to armor instead of health.

[Mr. Happy]

On the rare occassion I play medic I just spam healthkits at every team mate I see if I'm in range.

The best healer is the one you don't have to ask for!

[zE]

Originally Posted by GeoKill----->

So some think the sg weak, others think is too strong... hmmm Engy is pefect then

lolz good analogy ^^

[AaronJer]

I think people should stop complaining about people playing the way they like to in a pub. If you don't think there's enough medic healing going on... then become one and do it your god damned SELF! If I'm playing Medic, it means I'm either DMing soldiers for the lulz or trying to fuck with engineers... neither of those things have anything to do with healing people. I don't WANT to heal people, just because I CAN doesn't mean I have any obligation or desire to do so.

Why don't you just yell at EVERYONE for not playing medic and healing everyone all the time? Why does it make a difference? Someone playing soldier COULD become a medic and heal you... so why not yell at them too?

[Rutabeggar]

Perhaps looking at a subclass for medic, or even other classes for that matter could be done. Keep the original 9 classes, but develop a sub class for each that counter's the original's weaknesses, could probably develop some pretty interesting ideas...

[VinnytheBoss]

um....i didnt read all the posts but im gonna give you my take/

if you need heals and armor and your playing defense...its called killing yourself...you get backinto action in 10 seconds or less...(prolly quicker then the time it takes for you to call for a medic and have him stop playing offense just to come heal your sorry ass)

do you understand how silly this sounds???

maybe on maps like anti citizen and hunted MAYBE just MAYBE could you have somethin like this...which wouldnt be bad i guess...

but the regular CTF style gameplay which 95% of the FF community plays...its a dumb idea.


if you want that...goto tf2

[AaronJer]

Oh, and everyone make sure to start yelling at all the scouts for not defusing detpacks and taking off spy disguises whenever they go past you. Also yell at them and medics for not giving you a free conc for jumping. Yell at demos for not spending their time setting up pipe jumps for you, and of course yell at heavies for not giving you a fantastic blow job.

[chilledsanity]

Mr. Happy: Yes, sentry guns are more powerful than the weakest class in the game. Maybe we should change that, huh?

Credge: This is why the parastic health system might work. You go down quick without armor, that's a given. However if you can keep pumping your health up based off how much damage you're dealing, that would do a lot more for you in terms of staying alive and wouldn't make health such a waste. But this would ONLY be if you're attacking a lot. I think a mechanic that encourages players to fight more AND keeps them alive longer based on their skill level is a good one.

=AS= zE: As far as I know, only ONE person has complained that the sentries are too hard to kill and that's because he's trying to kill them as a SCOUT. That's about as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.

AaronJer: I actually don't blame medics for not healing people in their current state. They're not very good at it and the gameplay mechanics rarely make it worth while. I think the discussion is about changing the class or splitting it so that it would become viable for people who want to.

VinnytheBoss: Fair enough, but what do you think of the idea I've brought up before? Where by simply coming into contact with a medic, you could get the ability to replenish a fraction of your health for the amount of damage you're dealing? The medic wouldn't have to slow down at all and you would be rewarded with health for dealing damage and being a better player.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

Credge: This is why the parastic health system might work. You go down quick without armor, that's a given. However if you can keep pumping your health up based off how much damage you're dealing, that would do a lot more for you in terms of staying alive and wouldn't make health such a waste. But this would ONLY be if you're attacking a lot. I think a mechanic that encourages players to fight more AND keeps them alive longer based on their skill level is a good one.

I don't understand the mechanic.

Are you giving medics a life-tap gun? Are you giving medics the ability to allow others to life-tap? Is it a life-tap gun that the medic uses on an ally and has to follow his ally around with a-la TF2?

If you are giving medics a life-tap gun or ability then you have to tone down the damage that the class is capable of or the medic would be an even bigger, unbeatable power as his super nail gun would just be a stream of damage and life.

If you are giving the medic the ability to allow others to life-tap then it needs to be a very, very small amount or it would be woefully exploited and defense would be even easier on DM maps. Having a medic respawn and run to a defensive heavy to slap this on him would just throw offense in to a bad, unbeatable position.

If you are giving the medic the life-tap gun then you've got a watered down version of the TF2 medic.

Armor for all classes but the heavy goes away as you die. What I mean is that you run out of armor at the exact moment you die. Because of this, you will die without issue. Pyro IC does 83 damage now. Soldier rockets do about 85-87 damage. Shotgun blasts do about 75 damage. You're not living through any more than two of those when you have no more armor left, and all a life-tap would do would give you just a little bit of health. In other words, you'd probably die one shot later than you normally would. If it wasn't made this way, it would be overpowering.

[Iggy]

I have said it before, and I will say it again.... don't hate the class, it's the people that play the class a certain way. A medic on D(where there is no spread of infection) is about as needed as nipples on the HW. Medic on O HAS to be a team player. He has to help his O by healing them. Without a medic on O, a damaged O player is not going to get a flag out, and will be lucky to even get a touch on the flag.

I always heal other O players when I play medic. I also will call them by name, and stop them from rushing in without full health(if not max health).... when I can.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I see people using this term incorrectly a lot

Ok. He's more of a "kill things with large array of weaponry" medic than a medic medic.

Ftw!