Water Problem?

[o_geokill----->]

Didn't know where to post this

Well in TFC the water was just a texture over the water entity and you could not see through the water and it was great for hidding and expecially spies. In HL2 the water is clear and you could see everythign perfectly. In Well it was perfect to hide in the water but in HL2 you'll be spoted and shot down. I know everyone likes the new realistic water but that feature is really usefull in TFC.

[o_elvis2049]

hmm never lookt it like that.
good point m8.
lets see what the dev has to say

[o_don]

I agree too. Water is very useful. The enemy does not know where you are/are going. They have to forfeit their defensive position to see where you are by jumping into the water.

I reckon FF should have really murky water - like the stuff you see in most rivers, where only the onlooker's reflection is visible.

[o_travis dane]

Originally Posted by Don

I reckon FF should have really murky water - like the stuff you see in most rivers, where only the onlooker's reflection is visible.

And we all know Don likes to look at himself .

I agree with the topicstarter, and while we're on the subject, what's going to be done about the glass? CS:S has to have the most annoying glass I've ever seen. Cracks into a bazillion pieces and doesn't come off until it's hit. HL:S uses the classic glass system, which just does what glass is supposed to do when it gets shot, BREAK, DISAPPEAR AND NOT BOTHER THE PLAYER ANYMORE.

[mervaka]

i reckon glass should be bulletproof, just leaves a decal and makes a glassey sound. and ya, water should be either murky or uber reflective depending on the map imo

[o_xstioph]

You can have clear water in TFC too you know... I think it's only strategically... As you say, it's good for hiding etc. I wonder how the maps would play with transparent water in TFC.. Oh so many times I've gotten away on well thanks to the water... And of course gotten in (to the flag) as well.. I'm not sure where I stand in this question... I guess it would change a helluva lot with realistic water keep the non transparent water...

[o_geokill----->]

This came to my attention when I was looking at Cz2 and I remember that I use to hide in the water with the flag. I bet there's other issues but I need to play TFC and think how it would look in FF.

My Solutions

Glass doesn't break -nice and simple

The water is clear but you can't see players in the water, they become invisible to the eye when your looking at it from the top and become visible once they come out of the water or when you look at them under water. -just my 2 cents

[o_zsilver_fox]

Umm, glass is a texture. It's tied to func_wall and then set to func_breakable. The MAPPER defines whether or not it's breakable.

And mappers can just use different textures for water.

The glass in CS:S only needs to be shot ONCE. Then you can move through it and it breaks as you touch it, without hindering your progress.

[mervaka]

i do admit the cs:s glass is pretty, but i cant see it being used in a TF game - the props usually remain largely static and undynamic in comparison

[o_docwolfe]

you can make breakable glass like CS:S in HL2DM... it's all about which textures you use...

you could make unreflective non clear water in HL2 too but it depends on how you define the properties in the texture file.

"Water"
{
	"Water_DX60"
	{
		"$fallbackmaterial" "nature/water_canals03_dx70"
	}
	"Water_DX80"
	{
		"$refractamount" ".13"
	}
	"Water_DX81"
	{
		"$refractamount" ".13"
	}
	"$abovewater" 1
	"%compilewater" 1
	"$forceexpensive" 1
	"$reflectentities" 0
	"$envmap" "env_cubemap"
	"%tooltexture" "dev/water_normal"
	"$refracttexture" "_rt_WaterRefraction"
	"$refractamount" "4"
	"$refracttint" "[.68 .76 .76]"

	"$reflecttexture" "_rt_WaterReflection"
	"$reflectamount" "2.5"
	"$reflecttint" "[1 .95 .85]"

	"$scale" "[1 1]"

	"$bumpmap" "dev/water_dudv"
	"$normalmap" "dev/water_normal"

	"$surfaceprop" "water"
	"$bottommaterial" "nature/water_canals03_beneath"
	"$bumpframe" "0"

	"$fogenable" 1
	"$fogcolor" "{20 42 39}"
	"$fogstart" "0"
	"$fogend" "330"

	"Proxies"
	{
		"AnimatedTexture"
		{
			"animatedtexturevar" "$normalmap"
			"animatedtextureframenumvar" "$bumpframe"
			"animatedtextureframerate" 30.00
		}

		"TextureScroll"
		{
			"texturescrollvar" "$bumptransform"
			"texturescrollrate" .05
			"texturescrollangle" 45.00
		}

		"WaterLOD"
		{
		}
	}
}

It's all about editing this... theres no textures to make all you need to create a .vmt file with a any name... this is from "water_canals03.vmt"

[o_sobe green]

Originally Posted by Travis Dane

And we all know Don likes to look at himself .

I agree with the topicstarter, and while we're on the subject, what's going to be done about the glass? CS:S has to have the most annoying glass I've ever seen. Cracks into a bazillion pieces and doesn't come off until it's hit. HL:S uses the classic glass system, which just does what glass is supposed to do when it gets shot, BREAK, DISAPPEAR AND NOT BOTHER THE PLAYER ANYMORE.

Actually if you shoot glass it doesn't disappear.

[o_frenchtoast]

Quite, the CS:S glass is actually more realistic.

[mervaka]

but how often have you seen breakable glass in TFC anyway?

it wasnt there for a reason

[o_wardies]

FX amount 255, is a map issue, not Engine

[o_ivaqual]

i would cut the pie in two and have a VERY murky and opaque water, but not totally non see-through. this way you would practically never see anything underwater but could sometimes catch with the eye people coming in or out. i believe a totally opaque water would look strange and stopping to draw models when they enter water weird.
of course i'm talking about outside/inside of water visibility here.

[mervaka]

im guessing it would still be volumetric, just very very muddy

[o_sparky20k]

I think they have thought of this

http://www.fortress-forever.com/?a=media&id=ff_cz2_1

Notice the water is murky

[o_donny]

Well as a mapper Im happy to say this:
In hammer there's the texture bar (well no shit?)
In there are many many many kinds of water,
Clear from beneath
mucky
very mucky
low mucky
Clear from everywhere.

If the mapper wants that you see beneath it it'll add the clear from everywhere texture like I did in ff_baseflag.

But remember that radioactive water in HL2. I quess that's what the devs are going to use in Well. Tough without the func_hurt (means that id wont be radioactive(which would be cool if it would cost any health))

[o_travis dane]

Originally Posted by FrenchToast

Quite, the CS:S glass is actually more realistic.

Mentioning the word realistic in a TeamFortress forum is BLASPHEMY.

I just want my glass to break and fade away like in HL1's did, not look incredibly ugly and completely obstruct my view.

[o_fjorn]

Lots of misinformations about glass flying about...

here, this will explain it all...

http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=107