Identifying spies is too difficult

[lollerskates]

I searched a few times but didn't find anything about the subject.

In FF, you cannot differentiate between enemy spies and friendly players by simply shooting at them, because everyone bleeds the same way. In TFC you could tell the difference because teammates did not bleed or otherwise respond to hits.

When I started playing FF I immediately noticed that teammates were constantly shooting at each other (soldiers usually put one or two rockets into me every time I see them), a lot more than they ever did in TFC. Today I finally realized that friendly players and enemy spies both respond to hits in an identical fashion, making it impossible for you to tell who's who. The only way to be sure is to keep shooting until your target dies (spy) or you're sure they should be dead already (probably friendly). This takes a lot of time and sometimes makes you waste grenades just to be on the safe side. I play as a spy myself so I can identify enemy spies by getting close, but that's not always an option.

Spies are already more poweful than ever thanks to the cloaking and sabotage abilities, but this bleeding thing just makes them ridiculously overpowered. Is it a feature or an oversight? If it's something that's not going to be changed, I'm probably going to stop playing entirely. Spending most of your time chasing after teammates or supposed teammates just isn't fun or interesting.

[Gigiya]

When the player shoots back without revealing a disguise, they aren't a spy.

[Sabre]

Hmm i agree with this i've just been shooting everyone! The problem is less prominent in clan style play servers but i've been having trouble in pubby play thats fer shaw!

[Thansal]

Spies grunt when shot, your team does not.

Aside from that....

Yah :P

The other options are:
1) FIRE!
2) use VC to get other people to swing their weapons.

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by Gigiya

When the player shoots back without revealing a disguise, they aren't a spy.

They don't usually do that.

Originally Posted by Thansal

Spies grunt when shot, your team does not.

I didn't notice that. It's not always easy to hear things when there are explosions going on everywhere.


I don't think there's any reason not to revert back to the TFC method.

[Gigiya]

Originally Posted by lollerskates

They don't usually do that.

Originally Posted by lollerskates

... I immediately noticed that teammates were constantly shooting at each other ...

[HaZe905]

isn't the spy the one that looks like he's on your team but he doesn't have the thing above his head???? what is the thing above the head?

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by Gigiya

quotes

If there wasn't a problem I wouldn't have posted this thread. Not everyone shoots back, and performing a spy check on someone is a pain in the ass. Generally speaking FF is just complete chaos, and I always waste a lot of time chasing after real or imagined spies.

[Defrag]

The bloody teammates went into the mod because spy checking was so easy in the past. We might remove it, though this just makes spies even more deadly when friendly fire is turned on.

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by Defrag

The bloody teammates went into the mod because spy checking was so easy in the past.

Well yeah, it was. But even without sabotage, cloak and immunity against identification, spies were still very effective if they were in the right hands.

We might remove it, though this just makes spies even more deadly when friendly fire is turned on.

Wouldn't they be less deadly then? If FF is on and everyone bleeds, you can't put three rockets into a suspected spy, and a spy check is useless. If only spies bleed, you can do a spy check with a weak weapon.

[Kanadwen]

Just get to know the current classes on your team, and make a mental note on where they usually are on the battlefield. 11 people, if your playing defense, then there should only be 5 or 6 people near you. For example, lets say your pubin' it up, and your playing defense as soldier inside your front gate on ff_well. There is an Engy, another Solider, two Snipers, and a Demoman, that usually stick on your side of the map quite often, with other team mates as Spies, Scouts, and Medics going O. Watch the recently killed list, if the Demoman was killed, keep an eye out for a Demoman heading into your base. Plus, if FF is on, you just have to be extra careful. And if you get a TK, it's not the end of the world. Just maybe a kick from the admin if it was him, or if its a repetitive thing. It's simple. Yes, people do switch classes often, but it wouldn't hurt to hit TAB and see the new changes. And yes, the scoreboard bug can be quite annoying sometimes, but hell, deal with it. I know you're probably thinking "most. useless. reply. ever.", but just trying to help. =)

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by Kanadwen

I know you're probably thinking "most. useless. reply. ever.", but just trying to help. =)

Well, I think pubs are way too chaotic and unpredictable for keeping track of people like that (unless there happens to be a consistent defensive team), and it still doesn't eliminate the core problem. Back when I played TFC I practically had a sixth sense about spies, but I'm rusty now, and even if I suspect someone is a spy I still have to waste a whole lot of time emptying my shotgun into him, unless he returns fire.

[mervaka]

spychecks are supposed to be harder in FF

[Kanadwen]

Originally Posted by lollerskates

Well, I think pubs are way too chaotic and unpredictable for keeping track of people like that (unless there happens to be a consistent defensive team), and it still doesn't eliminate the core problem. Back when I played TFC I practically had a sixth sense about spies, but I'm rusty now, and even if I suspect someone is a spy I still have to waste a whole lot of time emptying my shotgun into him, unless he returns fire.

I don't like playing in 22 man servers, I like 12-18. I've always been that way with almost every game. I just can't stand playing with 22+. But yeah, it's going to take a while to get use to, but you'll get it. I'm already getting use to it, and can almost catch on to a cloak spy every time. They always accuse me of h4x0rn!!!11elvn, it's great! I'm even running DX7,

[Nuk3m]

Originally Posted by mervaka

spychecks are supposed to be harder in FF

but you can literally kill a teammate when friendly fire is off without even knowing. ive done that so much i got banned from a server because i couldnt tell my teamate from the spy, and no one had VC so it really annoyed me.

[Scythe]

Well since everyone spy checks everyone...
I mean, I quite often play a spy, and if disguised I'm shot till I'm dead, sometimes even more so in a server with FFon which results in alot of TK's. I'll admit, it is harder to catch a spy now. But behaviour is a big thing. Like I'll be disguised, cloaked, and waiting near a spawn point, and when the door opens I'll piggy back with them and often won't get checked, but if I so much as cast a shadow over anybody...

But, while it would be great to go back to the TFC way. I see this way as more of a challenge. Maybe taking too much damage ruins a disguise or something?

[mervaka]

basically i see it as upping the intellectual skill level required to root out spies. it should never be as simple as randomly shooting people. i'm inclined to even ask that all players make the pain sound as if FF was on when a friendly is shot.

[gizmofo]

I see no problem in wasting my crowbar ammo to prove I'm no spy.
It's not as difficult as it sounds. Though getting others to join in may be an adventure.

[lollerskates]

Originally Posted by mervaka

basically i see it as upping the intellectual skill level required to root out spies. it should never be as simple as randomly shooting people. i'm inclined to even ask that all players make the pain sound as if FF was on when a friendly is shot.

How is it more intellectual? You suspect someone is a spy, so what do you do about it? You shoot at him. If FF is enabled you can't even do that. If you're a class without any anti-spy abilities, I don't think there's anything you can do without risking a TK.

It still needs to be said that even with the easy spy detection and the lack of a cloaking device, I was still able to infiltrate enemy bases and fool the enemy in TFC. That actually required far more intellect than what spies are currently doing.

[skuLL]

It isn't hard ):
Just recognize fucking moving speed.