Maps

o_binarylife · 01-22-2005, 01:09 PM

If you look at all the TF maps they all share a comman theme...(well several common themes but anyway...) they all seem to be seperated from the world.

In other words, it's more of an arena feel. If you look at 2Fort, there are walls to the left and right of you boxing in the two bases. Shutdown2 is the same way. Rock2, etc. There are exeptions but I was wondering if there are any map makers out there who have made something different.

This isn't in suggestion because I dont' mean to imply that I think such maps should be made for this mod. TFC seems more like an arena combat anyway.
Just wondering really.

o_ghroth · 01-22-2005, 06:38 PM

thats largley due to the hl1 engine and its limitations

o_returner · 01-22-2005, 08:11 PM

Funnily enough, CS maps are usually no different.

o_redux · 01-23-2005, 07:51 AM

If you think of it though, would you really be driving down the street and to the right see 2fort with people running around with flags and stuff? I mean it would be pretty cool but its just not happening. I kind of like it, its almost like a tradition or sort to have the maps walled in somehow and cut from the outside world.

Jiggles · 01-23-2005, 07:15 PM

They usually setup some sort of "realistic" barrier so when you reach the edge of the map it kind of makes sense why you can't go any farther...

o_sev · 01-23-2005, 07:19 PM

I always think of it as the map being sunken into a huge hole somewhere out in the desert

o_binarylife · 01-24-2005, 01:06 AM

I always thought it was more of an intentional arena..
Sort of like, isntead of fighting a war two countries or civalizations group up a team of experts to go fight it out. Winner takes all sort of thing.

o_sobe green · 01-24-2005, 07:19 AM

Arena combat is a classic theme to CTF. I 've seen a few "realistic" TFC maps and they usually don't play very well. It is possible though, there are a few UT2k4 maps that pull off the "open world" theme with CTF. *shrugs*

o_eraserx · 01-24-2005, 09:48 AM

I don't think the game would be more fun if you made the levels more realistic. I'd rather see the leveldesigners spend their time on the flow and lay-out of the map, than on making it pretty and realistic.

o_binarylife · 01-24-2005, 05:14 PM

It depends on the situation and the intended feel. Realistic styled levels work for Halo, but probobly not for TFC

The only thing that really brings this question into mind is that both bases are built as one. In 2fort, the same concrete wall connects both bases, same with Shutdown2 and more. In badlands the bases are blocked in by natural rock, and it seems more likely that two warring clans would take shelter there.

Again this is merely speculation for the sake of it.

o_warmage_magus · 01-24-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Returner

Funnily enough...

Is that even a word?
:P

o_]l[-rare · 01-24-2005, 06:11 PM

Well... a/d maps are mostly different,... it gives a feeling of progression as the battle continues like in ca3, the attacking team must storm in the castle and cap the inside.

a/d is the best type of game played in pubs.

o_lillbrorsan · 01-24-2005, 06:42 PM

natural-selection maps are really good but you usually don't have time to look at the architecture or lightning when you play.
It think the remade maps for FF should be like the original but use something in a 3dsky.

o_silver · 01-24-2005, 08:34 PM

i could see realistic type stuff working for a attack and defend type map like avanti or a cp map like warpath, but then u run the rist of making it like dod

o_friedbunny · 01-25-2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarMage_Magus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Returner

Funnily enough...

Is that even a word?
:P

Why, yes!

o_bumblecrap · 01-25-2005, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver

i could see realistic type stuff working for a attack and defend type map like avanti or a cp map like warpath, but then u run the rist of making it like dod

In DoD, running around corners at full speed and hopping around like a nut while holding down the trigger is a good tactic to use if your objective is death. In TFC, you hit whatever is in your crosshair no matter what you're doing, so jumping around like a nut is not a bad idea.

Anyway, realistic maps can be very fun to play as long as they're well made. Think of maps like casbah. Sure, it looks like it could exist in the real worlld, but it's not the greatest map in the world because it's extremely linear - there's only one or two ways to get into the enemy base, and even fewer ways to get out. Badlands, on the other hand, is an example of a realistic map. The middle of a canyon is a perfect place to hide a missile silo base, and military installations are often built symetrically (I'm not basing that on anything at all, it just makes sense).

A good place to look for realistic maps that play well is Counter-Strike. You may be thinking "yeah right, I'd like to see a place like de_dust in the real world." Maybe not, but what about cs_office? You'd be hard pressed to find a more realistic map that plays anywhere near as well as office does.

The conclusion? Realism should take a backseat to gameplay when creating a map. Only after a map's layout is perfected should the realistic touches be added. Changing the layout of a map to make it seem like it would actually serve a purpose in the world is a bad idea if it detracts from the gameplay.

If you're a mapper, keep that in mind. Most players are much more interested in how a map plays than how a map looks.

o_d3pth charge · 01-25-2005, 04:30 AM

why would anyone even care if the map looked like its in the real world? the whole point of tf is unrealism so why should the maps be any different?

o_binarylife · 01-25-2005, 06:10 AM

I wouldn't say that unrealism is the point of TF but rather that realism isn't the point.

They never went out of their way to make it less realistic, they just didn't focus on making it real. They'd rather it be fun and focus on challenging players in another way.

o_]l[-rare · 01-25-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnarf

why would anyone even care if the map looked like its in the real world? the whole point of tf is unrealism so why should the maps be any different?

Gr4vit3h Gunz! Elite Nuclear RPG! Floating Map Islands with smurfs, cows and pigs flying in the middle! Oh and a UFO omgz!

I think what make maps good isnt because it resembles something very similar or familiar to us. It is because of a logical map concept. A logical map that has logical elements present within the context of the game.

o_d3pth charge · 01-25-2005, 06:22 PM

what was the point of that comment?

01-22-2005, 01:09 PM	#1
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Maps If you look at all the TF maps they all share a comman theme...(well several common themes but anyway...) they all seem to be seperated from the world. In other words, it's more of an arena feel. If you look at 2Fort, there are walls to the left and right of you boxing in the two bases. Shutdown2 is the same way. Rock2, etc. There are exeptions but I was wondering if there are any map makers out there who have made something different. This isn't in suggestion because I dont' mean to imply that I think such maps should be made for this mod. TFC seems more like an arena combat anyway. Just wondering really.

01-22-2005, 06:38 PM	#2
o_ghroth Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	thats largley due to the hl1 engine and its limitations

01-22-2005, 08:11 PM	#3
o_returner Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Funnily enough, CS maps are usually no different.

01-23-2005, 07:51 AM	#4
o_redux Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Texarkana, Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If you think of it though, would you really be driving down the street and to the right see 2fort with people running around with flags and stuff? I mean it would be pretty cool but its just not happening. I kind of like it, its almost like a tradition or sort to have the maps walled in somehow and cut from the outside world.

01-23-2005, 07:15 PM	#5
Jiggles Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: CowTown Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	They usually setup some sort of "realistic" barrier so when you reach the edge of the map it kind of makes sense why you can't go any farther...

01-23-2005, 07:19 PM	#6
o_sev Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I always think of it as the map being sunken into a huge hole somewhere out in the desert

01-24-2005, 01:06 AM	#7
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I always thought it was more of an intentional arena.. Sort of like, isntead of fighting a war two countries or civalizations group up a team of experts to go fight it out. Winner takes all sort of thing.

01-24-2005, 07:19 AM	#8
o_sobe green Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Arena combat is a classic theme to CTF. I 've seen a few "realistic" TFC maps and they usually don't play very well. It is possible though, there are a few UT2k4 maps that pull off the "open world" theme with CTF. shrugs

01-24-2005, 09:48 AM	#9
o_eraserx Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I don't think the game would be more fun if you made the levels more realistic. I'd rather see the leveldesigners spend their time on the flow and lay-out of the map, than on making it pretty and realistic.

01-24-2005, 05:14 PM	#10
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It depends on the situation and the intended feel. Realistic styled levels work for Halo, but probobly not for TFC The only thing that really brings this question into mind is that both bases are built as one. In 2fort, the same concrete wall connects both bases, same with Shutdown2 and more. In badlands the bases are blocked in by natural rock, and it seems more likely that two warring clans would take shelter there. Again this is merely speculation for the sake of it.

01-24-2005, 06:11 PM	#12
o_]l[-rare Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well... a/d maps are mostly different,... it gives a feeling of progression as the battle continues like in ca3, the attacking team must storm in the castle and cap the inside. a/d is the best type of game played in pubs.

01-24-2005, 06:42 PM	#13
o_lillbrorsan Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	natural-selection maps are really good but you usually don't have time to look at the architecture or lightning when you play. It think the remade maps for FF should be like the original but use something in a 3dsky.

01-24-2005, 08:34 PM	#14
o_silver Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i could see realistic type stuff working for a attack and defend type map like avanti or a cp map like warpath, but then u run the rist of making it like dod

01-25-2005, 04:30 AM	#17
o_d3pth charge Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Davis, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	why would anyone even care if the map looked like its in the real world? the whole point of tf is unrealism so why should the maps be any different?

01-25-2005, 06:10 AM	#18
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I wouldn't say that unrealism is the point of TF but rather that realism isn't the point. They never went out of their way to make it less realistic, they just didn't focus on making it real. They'd rather it be fun and focus on challenging players in another way.

01-25-2005, 06:22 PM	#20
o_d3pth charge Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Davis, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	what was the point of that comment?

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