Bots for FF?? my thoughts on FF.

s0undch4s3r · 06-06-2009, 03:23 PM

Would be nice to play FF with bots since nobody here plays FF anymore it seems.

I went to play FF last night and nobody was around to play with.
The fan base is leaving.

What's going on with FF? I think it needs a makeover or something strong to get more peeps to play. The elitists are killing FF.

"Don't change FF cuz it's perfect for us elitists that play it 24/7!!!" "I need my BUNNY HOP cuz I'm l337!!!!" "The game speed is fast and furious and if the nubs don't like it then too bad for them...boo hoo!!!"

Well, with this kind of thinking, FF will be a mere thought of the past (If not already). Very unfortunate for a mod that could have been kick ass.
But it was made by elitists, for elitists.

Perhaps that's what should be on FF's grave stone.
"R.I.P. FF....MADE BY ELITISTS, FOR ELITISTS"

This mod should have been beta tested publicly back in 2006.
But no...sadly it was not. If it had it may have had a much better following, input and ideals.

If you want TF bunny hop then go play TFC. Bunny hop never will be an appropriate way to play a game unless the developer advertises and implements it into the games for EVERYBODY to be able to do with a stroke of a key. None of this "hit the space bar just right and wiggle your mouse left and right and don't hit the forward key but only use the left and right keys for momentum."
Nubs will start crying "CHEATER!!!" when they see somebody doing something that they can't and then uninstall the game. I have seen this happen a couple of times and it sucks.

Until FF changes to OB, gets rid of BH, fixes the animation and the look of the characters and the sentry gun, slow down the speed of the characters, it probably won't ever have a good fan base.

I really want FF to go somewhere....someday.

We need people to play it folks. plain and simple.

s0undch4s3r · 06-06-2009, 03:38 PM

Do you folks remember when FF was released just before TF2?

It was amazing!!!! Every server was packed with players!!!

It can happen again and this time have it on Steams 3rd party mods list.

Bridget · 06-06-2009, 03:55 PM

Fortress Forever should keep the classic feel, but just find ways to make it more simple for a beginner to learn the trade. They have made attempts at this, such as implementing jump stacking, so I appreciate their effort.

FF would probably be better if the Engineer was fixed. His gun is way too easy to take down, as he is. It is, of course, the class almost every beginner starts with. Then, if practical, I think smaller more frequent updates would be better than rare but large updates. It makes things seem more lively.

[AE] 82694 · 06-06-2009, 04:10 PM

http://store.steampowered.com/app/900646/

Not to be confused with steamworks.

s0undch4s3r · 06-06-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [AE] 82694

http://store.steampowered.com/app/900646/

Not to be confused with steamworks.

Oh my...my my my. Very NICE!!! Thank you AE. I didn't check. That's superb!

s0undch4s3r · 06-06-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bridget

Fortress Forever should keep the classic feel, but just find ways to make it more simple for a beginner to learn the trade.

I like the classic feel too. Even TF2 has a "little" classic feel on some servers.

Beginners? Ahh..yes...the beginners. Well they have a long road ahead of them to learn the secrets in the dark arts of the TF masters.
There was one thread I read here where a beginner said he had a hard time distinguishing the characters because they kinda look the same. I sorta agree with him. Doesn't matter to me though, I try to kill everything I see. Isn't that what it's all about? lol

MonoXideAtWork · 06-06-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

Would be nice to play FF with bots since nobody here plays FF anymore it seems.

I went to play FF last night and nobody was around to play with.
The fan base is leaving.

What's going on with FF? I think it needs a makeover or something strong to get more peeps to play. The elitists are killing FF.

Unless you play in pickups, you have absolutely zero contact with anyone that could be considered elitist. If you do play in pickups, then you're lying about not seeing players last night, as I know of at least 2 pickups that happened last night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

"Don't change FF cuz it's perfect for us elitists that play it 24/7!!!" "I need my BUNNY HOP cuz I'm l337!!!!" "The game speed is fast and furious and if the nubs don't like it then too bad for them...boo hoo!!!"

An insult is the response of someone who cannot make a valid arguement. When you post things like the above text, everyone who reads it assumes you have run out of things to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

Well, with this kind of thinking, FF will be a mere thought of the past (If not already). Very unfortunate for a mod that could have been kick ass.
But it was made by elitists, for elitists.

Perhaps that's what should be on FF's grave stone.
"R.I.P. FF....MADE BY ELITISTS, FOR ELITISTS"

I'm sure the dev team appreciates being called elitists, they bust their ass to make this game for free, and you slam them. Good job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

This mod should have been beta tested publicly back in 2006.
But no...sadly it was not. If it had it may have had a much better following, input and ideals.

If you want TF bunny hop then go play TFC. Bunny hop never will be an appropriate way to play a game unless the developer advertises and implements it into the games for EVERYBODY to be able to do with a stroke of a key. None of this "hit the space bar just right and wiggle your mouse left and right and don't hit the forward key but only use the left and right keys for momentum."

It looks pretty damn appropriate here.

YouTube

and here in TFC, Which At this point I will bring up the major difference in the Bunnyhopping between TFC and FF.

YouTube

TFC's bunnyhop was originally uncapped and in order to do it you had to use a certain control set up or use automation to get the timing right, that is not noob friendly at all, and in my opinion crosses the line into having to cheat in order to have the best execution.

FF rectified this by adding the Jump QUEUE, to eliminate timing issues. Hold the jump in midair, and you will automatically jump when you hit the ground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

Nubs will start crying "CHEATER!!!" when they see somebody doing something that they can't and then uninstall the game. I have seen this happen a couple of times and it sucks.

I have seen this happen maybe once, but most of the time, if the person asks for help in the server, someone will be kind enough to stop what they're doing and explain what they are doing and point out resources to learn it. Thats' what's great about this community, there's no shortage of expertise and many of us are willing to help, because WE LIKE NEW PLAYERS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

Until FF changes to OB, gets rid of BH, fixes the animation and the look of the characters and the sentry gun, slow down the speed of the characters, it probably won't ever have a good fan base.

None of these have any supporting ideas. You did not explain WHY you think the game is being held back by the way the SG or characters look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s0undch4s3r

I really want FF to go somewhere....someday.

Then play, spread the word, learn the game. Love the game.

We need people to play it folks. plain and simple.[/QUOTE]

Join the steam group, and look for when people are playing. We'll be happy to help you out. Thanks.

TFCFan · 06-06-2009, 06:43 PM

I did a little thoughts thing on the game a while back and the one thing that's apparent for the devs of FF is "you're dammed if you do, dammed if you don't"

If they took out bhopping and slowed it down etc they would probably loose much of the fanbase they have now. You can argue that they would grow a much larger fanbase but I think it'd be fair to say that most people would rather play TF2 over a slower FF

So I say, stick with the niché but refine it a little. Yes the characters need reworking a bit, voices here and there, SGs and a few other bits I'm probably forgetting but the main problem is the activity. The game is fairly active late nights (on one or two servers) but that's only late night and I doubt playing with bots will make new people want to play it.

Overall, advertise it a bit more, maybe get on OB, sort out those models and tweek some bits here and there and add a tutorial on the main page (along with New Game, Find Servers, Settings etc) which gives video examples and ingame courses - much like the HL1 hazaard course I guess.

**squeek.** · 06-06-2009, 07:18 PM

Related thread: http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...t=19590&page=2

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

To me, the great thing about FF is that it is NOT like most other games. We need to revel in our uniqueness, in the speed of the game, and in the challenge.

In a market of slow, aim-based FPS games, I think if we do a sufficient job of explaining why our game is different and how to enjoy it from the first time a player loads FF, we can capture and hold a portion of the market that is looking for something different.

If not, I'd rather FF die* trying than for it to conform to what people think today's gamers want.

* FF isn't dead until there are zero people developing it

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeek.

We know what's up, and we're working to fix everything at all times, always. Alright?

This is a volunteer team working on a game solely because they like the game. If you want a different game, then by all means, start a different dev team.

**Elmo** · 06-06-2009, 08:28 PM

glad I'm not the only one slightly adgitated by parts of these posts.

MonoXideAtWork · 06-06-2009, 10:40 PM

I'm here so you guys don't have to make negative replies!

chilledsanity · 06-06-2009, 07:02 PM

Well getting back to your original statement, I think bots would be fantastic for FF, though I think the game needs more than that at this point. Here's the dilemma I face:

Pubbing CTF = not fun, it's like random deathmatch that you have to run to get to
AvD = not much fun, defense is a joke and offense is way too easy
Hunted = not as much fun, the spy upgrades make it so I can kill the hunted every time now
"Fun" maps (waterpolo, push, murderball) = still pretty fun actually, though no one ever seems to play them.

I agree with Monoxide in that attacking the devs isn't really called for, but it's sort of a frustrating situation too. One on hand, the amount of work that's gone into the mod is incredible. The graphics, physics, mapping, models, it's all superb for a fan-made mod. Compared to TFC I really can't say enough good things about it. On the other hand though, many gameplay elements (some of them fun, some of them not), have destroyed balance in many situations.

In many situations I find myself longing to go back to 1.0. It was far from perfect, but it had far better balance in my opinion and felt more fun. People often confuse this with me saying nothing should change; that's not it at all. I love new features, but not if they wreck having a balanced game. Anecdotal evidence also seems to get a lot of weight. So if one person says they played one game to the contrary, it's like everything's great again. Meanwhile, I've observed an obvious shift in which side wins after some patches from playing dozens and dozens of games. So it's hard to know what to do. Yes, the devs created an utterly fantastic mod, but made what I think are some poor decisions afterwards.

Scuzzy · 06-06-2009, 07:12 PM

If you want your ideas to be reviewed by the development staff please make feature requests.

06-06-2009, 03:23 PM	#1
s0undch4s3r The guy you love to hate. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Under your bed Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Bots for FF?? my thoughts on FF. Would be nice to play FF with bots since nobody here plays FF anymore it seems. I went to play FF last night and nobody was around to play with. The fan base is leaving. What's going on with FF? I think it needs a makeover or something strong to get more peeps to play. The elitists are killing FF. "Don't change FF cuz it's perfect for us elitists that play it 24/7!!!" "I need my BUNNY HOP cuz I'm l337!!!!" "The game speed is fast and furious and if the nubs don't like it then too bad for them...boo hoo!!!" Well, with this kind of thinking, FF will be a mere thought of the past (If not already). Very unfortunate for a mod that could have been kick ass. But it was made by elitists, for elitists. Perhaps that's what should be on FF's grave stone. "R.I.P. FF....MADE BY ELITISTS, FOR ELITISTS" This mod should have been beta tested publicly back in 2006. But no...sadly it was not. If it had it may have had a much better following, input and ideals. If you want TF bunny hop then go play TFC. Bunny hop never will be an appropriate way to play a game unless the developer advertises and implements it into the games for EVERYBODY to be able to do with a stroke of a key. None of this "hit the space bar just right and wiggle your mouse left and right and don't hit the forward key but only use the left and right keys for momentum." Nubs will start crying "CHEATER!!!" when they see somebody doing something that they can't and then uninstall the game. I have seen this happen a couple of times and it sucks. Until FF changes to OB, gets rid of BH, fixes the animation and the look of the characters and the sentry gun, slow down the speed of the characters, it probably won't ever have a good fan base. I really want FF to go somewhere....someday. We need people to play it folks. plain and simple. Last edited by s0undch4s3r; 06-06-2009 at 03:30 PM.

06-06-2009, 04:10 PM	#4
[AE] 82694 Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	http://store.steampowered.com/app/900646/ Not to be confused with steamworks. __________________ I Love GenghisTron . I miss you sooooo Much. LOL.

06-06-2009, 08:28 PM	#10
Elmo Gets tickled by FF Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK Class/Position: Med Solly HW Gametype: Any/CTF Posts Rated Helpful 41 Times	glad I'm not the only one slightly adgitated by parts of these posts. __________________ Support FF: Done: ff_monkey Done: ff_bases Done: ff_warpath Forever Doing: ff_medieval (beta#99999999)

06-06-2009, 07:12 PM	#13
Scuzzy The Old Timers Clan D&A Member Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Server: 206.217.134.170:27016 Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	If you want your ideas to be reviewed by the development staff please make feature requests. __________________ "Player Quality, not Quantity, is what we strive for." - The LLama Wrangler "A clan is defined by the nature of it's enemies. - The Llama Wrangler

06-06-2009, 03:38 PM	#2
s0undch4s3r The guy you love to hate. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Under your bed Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	Do you folks remember when FF was released just before TF2? It was amazing!!!! Every server was packed with players!!! It can happen again and this time have it on Steams 3rd party mods list.

06-06-2009, 03:55 PM	#3
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Fortress Forever should keep the classic feel, but just find ways to make it more simple for a beginner to learn the trade. They have made attempts at this, such as implementing jump stacking, so I appreciate their effort. FF would probably be better if the Engineer was fixed. His gun is way too easy to take down, as he is. It is, of course, the class almost every beginner starts with. Then, if practical, I think smaller more frequent updates would be better than rare but large updates. It makes things seem more lively.

06-06-2009, 06:43 PM	#8
TFCFan Join Date: May 2009 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I did a little thoughts thing on the game a while back and the one thing that's apparent for the devs of FF is "you're dammed if you do, dammed if you don't" If they took out bhopping and slowed it down etc they would probably loose much of the fanbase they have now. You can argue that they would grow a much larger fanbase but I think it'd be fair to say that most people would rather play TF2 over a slower FF So I say, stick with the niché but refine it a little. Yes the characters need reworking a bit, voices here and there, SGs and a few other bits I'm probably forgetting but the main problem is the activity. The game is fairly active late nights (on one or two servers) but that's only late night and I doubt playing with bots will make new people want to play it. Overall, advertise it a bit more, maybe get on OB, sort out those models and tweek some bits here and there and add a tutorial on the main page (along with New Game, Find Servers, Settings etc) which gives video examples and ingame courses - much like the HL1 hazaard course I guess.

06-06-2009, 10:40 PM	#11
MonoXideAtWork Pub Allstar! Beta Tester Join Date: Aug 2008 Class/Position: under en kvinna Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Eternal Order, Must be h4x, Mono's happy funtime. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'm here so you guys don't have to make negative replies!

06-06-2009, 07:02 PM	#12
chilledsanity D&A Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	Well getting back to your original statement, I think bots would be fantastic for FF, though I think the game needs more than that at this point. Here's the dilemma I face: Pubbing CTF = not fun, it's like random deathmatch that you have to run to get to AvD = not much fun, defense is a joke and offense is way too easy Hunted = not as much fun, the spy upgrades make it so I can kill the hunted every time now "Fun" maps (waterpolo, push, murderball) = still pretty fun actually, though no one ever seems to play them. I agree with Monoxide in that attacking the devs isn't really called for, but it's sort of a frustrating situation too. One on hand, the amount of work that's gone into the mod is incredible. The graphics, physics, mapping, models, it's all superb for a fan-made mod. Compared to TFC I really can't say enough good things about it. On the other hand though, many gameplay elements (some of them fun, some of them not), have destroyed balance in many situations. In many situations I find myself longing to go back to 1.0. It was far from perfect, but it had far better balance in my opinion and felt more fun. People often confuse this with me saying nothing should change; that's not it at all. I love new features, but not if they wreck having a balanced game. Anecdotal evidence also seems to get a lot of weight. So if one person says they played one game to the contrary, it's like everything's great again. Meanwhile, I've observed an obvious shift in which side wins after some patches from playing dozens and dozens of games. So it's hard to know what to do. Yes, the devs created an utterly fantastic mod, but made what I think are some poor decisions afterwards.

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