Want to improve a distinction between Scout and Medic?

[Jimyd]

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/s...ad.php?t=21532

Inspired from this thread.

*NOTE* (I do not play FF but I know what is in it and I am a TF Vet of all types of TF games, TFC most known by, and I know the consequences of what I am proposing.)

Now with that out of the way, lets try this experiment.

Scout gets Double-Shotgun to replace Single-Shotgun.

Medic gets Single-Shotgun to replace Double-Shotgun.

(Whoa snap is right, I just did that.)

The one thing I like about TF2(and by one thing I mean literally only that, the rest of the game is meh) is that Scouts are now the Fast Combat Class. Medics can still combat to an extent, but are more there for support.

Although in all other TF's the Medic is more combat oriented because he has a Shotgun. Which is good because the games move faster and have all types of movement "exploits" and grenades. Fits for him in those settings.

Seriously try this out FF DEVs, you might actually like it. I was known for DMing Soldiers as Scout with my Single-Shotty in TFC, and it does hurt and is very distracting. If only I had the Double-Shotgun as a Scout I could have been more of a serious threat... if not kill, at least make them fall back to the Engy or a Resupply/Spawn Room.

[Jimyd]

K I'm done editing, I await your viewpoints on this. Poll is there as well.

Try not to turn this into a game war(FFvsTFCvsTF2) discussion.

[Everything]

Inspired by Bridget? Oh dear.

[Bridget]

I think this is a case of don't fix what isn't broken. I don't think we should have to go to these extremes to make the distinction. Their current roles and intended means of play are fine. It's just that I think the Scout needs more tactical (non-combat) slot items to make him useful outside of capturing the flag and to appeal to beginners instead of being a niche class for people who have mastered various aspects of the game, and I think the Medic needs his concussion grenades replaced with a movement boosting skill that doesn't walk all over the Scout's; something like an adrenaline shot or a quick recharging dash or whatever. If you want dynamic movement, you should have to go Scout instead of getting it as the combat-oriented Medic.

Outside of the movement speed, the Medic has Scout beat. The Medic is stronger and more powerful and has concussion grenades and fragmentation grenades and auto-heals and can heal his team mates and take out sentry guns and has a sick (no pun intended) melee weapon. The only legitimate reason you would play Scout is if you're really good at movement, which is a skill that is not immediate to people coming in to the game. So, the Scout will remain untouched until that person gains the skill to use him. You can't just pick up the Scout and roll with it like you can the Soldier — the problem.

[xks]

Give the Scout a camera and let him 'tag' opposition players by taking pictures of them as he bunnyhops past.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by xks

Give the Scout a camera and let him 'tag' opposition players by taking pictures of them as he bunnyhops past.

I see what you did there.

[SSCUJO]

bridget are you taking into account competative play in your suggestion to add new functionality to the scout?

i completely understand you wanting to give the scout some noob friendly skills, but won't those 'noob freindly' skills be exploited in combination with the scouts advanatge in competative play, making him to good when pros use it and thus break the balance?

i suppose it all depends on what your plans were for the new scout skills.


as for the shottie switch i like it, the dev's are in complete control of the game and such a small switch would be nice to see and a refreshing change in stratagy which will bring back many players from pickups atleast to test it out. and hey if it doesn't work, no harm no foul atleast you changed it up a bit.

[squeek.]

Technically, wouldn't this make the scout and medic more similar, as they'd both able to deal decent damage? Right now there is quite a significant distinction between the scout and medic, even though it might not be as obvious as it could be.

[SSCUJO]

by removing the medics double shottie doesn't that just leave the granades as having a tactical advantage over the scout?

i think with the shotgun switch in competative play you will see more 2 scout 2 med runs, the medics will still be importent with the granades but you will really see the scout come into its own. it would be a refreshing change in stratagy and i know for me atleast it would be fun to watch.

[squeek.]

You already see 2 scout 2 medic quite frequently.

[blackout]

The scout's fine, I think it's been well represented in this game, it's already far different than the medic, great fun to play. If anything maybe subtract jump pads instead of adding anything, but I don't mind them staying either.

[slamdunk]

let the scout as flag carrier someone has to do that :=)

[[AE] 82694]

Originally Posted by Jimyd

*NOTE* (I do not play FF but I know what is in it and I am a TF Vet of all types of TF games, TFC most known by, and I know the consequences of what I am proposing.)

If you don't play........
Why don't you play?

How do you now the differences/similarities between scout and medic?

Why would you even bother wasting time to make a post for a game you don't play?

[blackout]

Why would you even bother wasting time to make a post for a game you don't play?

I think Bridget's got about 7 threads going now, this question has puzzled me as well.

[Nezumi]

One of the huge reasons I don't like TF2 is that everyone is a combat class. Making the scout a better fighter makes him less distinguished from the medic.

[Bridget]

The argument that someone shouldn't make an argument or discussion simply because they don't or can't play a game is stupid. Maybe the argument or discussion was created to alleviate problems that prevent that person from enjoying the game in the first place? Team Fortress games share many similarities. If you understand the theory of one Team Fortress game, then you understand the theory of another. Knowledge isn't always contingent upon experience. /facepalm

[[AE] 82694]

He said he doesn't play FF not he can't.

Doesn't and can't are two different situations. It would be like voicing your opinion of changes and never actually trying them. Most of us would call that "contempt prior to investigation".

[squeek.]

He's played enough TFC to know the roles of the scout and medic. In FF, those roles aren't much different. Plus, he's not really making an FF-specific suggestion (nothing in FF makes this suggestion void, the scout and medic are two of the least-modified classes from TFC to FF).

I don't think it would create the distinction he suggests it would, but him not playing FF doesn't (or shouldn't) really apply to this discussion.

[[AE] 82694]

Originally Posted by [AE] 82694

If you don't play........
Why don't you play?

How do you now the differences/similarities between scout and medic?

Why would you even bother wasting time to make a post for a game you don't play?

Getting back to my original questions for Jimyd. You see none of my questions say he isn't qualified but I'm mostly curios as to why post for a game someone doesn't play and why they don't play? My last response was mostly for your bridget. Not trying to start shit but I believe you should try it first before suggesting changes.

[blackout]

The argument that someone shouldn't make an argument or discussion simply because they don't or can't play a game is stupid.

Argue all you want, just stop obsessive compulsively trying to change a game you're not even playing. Every time i venture back here you have a new complaint with the game. I think the FF staff have done a commendable job with this game, quit whining for changes that you won't be experiencing.