Would a Attack and Defend focus be better?

[own3r]

Should FF change it's focus to be more about Attack and Defend and less about CTF?


From my experience its difficult to play CTF with uncoordinated teams, that seems to be generally true and not restricted to FF. The only situation where CTF can work in my view is if the maps are not massive and are quite simple (a nod to 2fort despite its flaws).



Attack and defend is a lot easier to design, make and play so should FF be more A/D focused?

[chilledsanity]

As much as I'd love to see that happen, a poll I did here suggest most people prefer CTF over AvD almost 2:1. That said, I think AvD is a natural for pubbers, they can run around and fight whoever they see, and that can still help offense/defense push or hold the line of fighting.

[Peon]

I suppose an AvD only server would be a viable option. When I was a TFC noob, I really liked AvD maps, and played the living crap out of Avanti. If that map were to be released, it might help things a little bit. Palermo is good, but it seems a bit too spread out for me to want to play it all the time. I like Cornfield a lot more, because it seems like the team competition flows better, and there's a definite skill guage......I also feel the same about Avanti.

However, as I played TFC more, I came to prefer CTF, which felt more like I was accomplishing something. It seemed better balanced, and more defined. I still like AvD maps for some fun inbetween, but CTF really brings out my competetive side.

[BinaryLife]

No they shouldn't

Attack/Defend on CTF maps is only good when there are A: Very few players or B: All clanners.

When you have a lot of people playing on a CTF map it's best to play CTF as the map was intended. Aside from not confusing new players and causing lots of Newb hating (which I have seen a LOT lately) it goes against the grain of the map and messes with balance. As well as class choice. An attacking team won't be playing with a lot of snipers, HW's, or Demomen

In regards to the newbie situation with this:

When you join a server to a game you haven't played very much that has two flags, two teams, and two capture points (as well as a message telling you the map is CTF) you are going to assume it's CTF. Even I have joined a server and played CTF only to be immediately yelled at and ridiculed by "IT"S aVd NUB!!!!!1!!1!" "GEt OFF My TEAM With That" there was one instance where a player was asked to leave the server because he wasn't sure. And he left. If that player was new to the game, I don't think he'll be coming back.

Changing the apparent rules and then reacting poorly to people who are confused will destroy the community. I wont say names or servers about that stuff but if they post on the forums they know who they are they need not be publicly ridiculed.

*edit*
If you're talking about mapping AvD maps then I suppose most of my post should be ignored. If you're talking about just playing AvD on existing CTF maps, then bad!

[jordan10la]

Yeah I hate A vs D on CTF maps. I will only play it if there isn't many players and even then I may let my opinion be known over chat As for more of a A vs D map focus I personally think no. Some more maps would be nice but I prefer CTF style maps. I would rather there be more CTF than A vs D. We can't let go of CTF maps. I love them.

[!nF3D4L]

i don't think more of an avd focus would bring more players but the classic maps will, in tfc a server with avanti will fill up in minutes a server with any well liked pub will fill the server, get maps like avanti warpath and other tfc classic and the players will come

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by !nF3D4L

i don't think more of an avd focus would bring more players but the classic maps will, in tfc a server with avanti will fill up in minutes a server with any well liked pub will fill the server, get maps like avanti warpath and other tfc classic and the players will come

If you download the maps, they will come.

[Circuitous]

binary and jordan are confusing AvD with OvD.

AvD is easier on pubs where map flow forces coordination, but without enough people it's a tedious experience at best.

That, plus current AvD maps being broken by current FF features, means an AvD focus won't come any time soon.

[greenday5494]

we need an AvD "mode" and a CTF "mode" for the map. it's auto by lua, a simple line of code, that disables/enables some things for AvD.

[jordan10la]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

binary and jordan are confusing AvD with OvD.

AvD is easier on pubs where map flow forces coordination, but without enough people it's a tedious experience at best.

That, plus current AvD maps being broken by current FF features, means an AvD focus won't come any time soon.

Yeah I get what the topic was about but I was just saying my opinion on A vs D on CTF maps since some one mentioned them.

And how are they being broken?

[greenday5494]

jumppad needs no explaination

[slay2rr]

I think CTF as a mode isn't bad, but usually the FF maps which are very similar to TFC maps are too tight, i once played a map called ff_runoff and that map was aswome, flags are very easy to cap, plenty of space for DM, I think CTF maps like runoff would be pretty cool.

[SoBe Green]

As much as I'd love it, FF doesn't cater to it too well.

Palermo is great but the fact one Demo can pretty much cap all points by himself severely ruins it.

That and since TF2 I really enjoy AvD with teleporters. AvD can be enjoyed without them but if done right (like TF2 and not like TFC) they add an extra element to defending.

[greenday5494]

ff_runoff was a HL2DM stock map.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by greenday5494

we need an AvD "mode" and a CTF "mode" for the map. it's auto by lua, a simple line of code, that disables/enables some things for AvD.

ff_2fort__avd__.lua

wait what

[greenday5494]

well, instead of redoing all of the luas for the AvD maps, why not just have one lua command that sets it in AD mode, such as disabling mancannon, etc

[GoatMan]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

As much as I'd love to see that happen, a poll I did here suggest most people prefer CTF over AvD almost 2:1. That said, I think AvD is a natural for pubbers, they can run around and fight whoever they see, and that can still help offense/defense push or hold the line of fighting.

A poll that consist of just people who post on here really...

For the most part i death match with everyone else on CTF... 90% of the time in AvD i'm working the objective whether it be defending or trying to cap the point.

I would love to see some more AvD maps.

Dustbowl can be fun sometimes but is generally pretty spammy as theres alot of choke points. Cornfield plays imo is probably one of the better maps as it doesn't feel to spammy and yet the right defense can make things still challenging.

Palermaro? Ick.

[own3r]

The hardcore players are probably all that is left. So a poll in favour of CTF is the expected outcome I would think. I shared the experience of someone else on here I learnt how to play the game (while having fun...) on Attack and Defend maps.

I don't want to offend anyone, but I will be honest I don't really like any of the Attack and Defend maps we have at the moment. Perhaps if we got some help from here: http://www.invade-defend.com/default.php ?

Original maps are always a plus, wasn't bumgravy making one?
My favourite was warpath but the only problem was it was a bit too big in my view, if the map could be condensed a bit it would be the perfect map.

[Firefox11]

.id guys won't help much. Been there, tried, only to told that TF2 was better. Meanwhile their TFC servers still get people, while they have to do Play Nights to fill the TF2 servers. Also, their FF servers are still on 1.11, AFAIK, even though I told them that it needed upgrading.

Other members either left for good or are playing Zombie Mod/BF2/others.

[KubeDawg]

CTF maps are more fun, more solid than AVD maps for the most part.

Maps that I think are important and might draw more people for pubbing and the league community:

ff_2fort - beig made
ff_training - being made
ff_well_classic
ff_schtop_classic
ff_warpath - being made
ff_casbah - being made
ff_avanti
ff_mortality_classic
ff_alchemy_classic

Other fun maps?

forever2(or dub_forever)
freefall4 - being made
escape maps - being made, almost done
kz or climbing maps - being made
rats/burgers maps

If we had these types of maps, not just CTF, but also, not just AVD maps, I think people would have more of a choice, and therefore, be more happy and play this mod more. No, adding maps won't solve the playerbase problem, but it should help..