widescreen = unfair advantage?

o_pyromainiac · 10-07-2006, 01:59 AM

I remembered that in source people with widescreen or multiple monitors get to see more rather then getting a stretched image. I did a search and came up with this thread but I would just like a stance from the devs if anything will be done about stuff like this:

I couldn't really care, more fun for people with setups like that, but some leagues might like a server command to disable that wide of a resolution.

o_dancingfool · 10-07-2006, 02:07 AM

I say if you pay for it you deserve it, plus it's not exactly a HUGE advantage.

o_pyromainiac · 10-07-2006, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DancingFool

I say if you pay for it you deserve it, plus it's not exactly a HUGE advantage.

I don't really mind either, I'm just putting the question up for discussion.

o_imbrifer · 10-07-2006, 02:19 AM

I could see it being an advantage. You notice things in your pariph' that others wouldn't (because they dont have the screen). I dont think that people with more cash in real life should get an advantage this big in games. (And yeah, you can get a really nice monitor, or really sweet headphones but they wouldnt give you as big as advantage as having 3x the visibility does).

I think that if you have the hardware you should be able to do it, but it should be a server/map variable that can be turned off/on.

o_osiris · 10-07-2006, 02:22 AM

Having bought a 20inch widescreen a few months back, I'd be a bit pissed off if it was declared an unfair advantage and not able to be used in the game. I'm not one to have multiple monitors to see as much as that guy can, but the way I look at it is if the guy paid the money for it, who cares, let him have it. If he think's that much money is worth it to win a game, that's great for him. 1680x1050 doesnt add much viewing area anyways, im sure 1920 is a bit more noticable but then again, if you're paying for it. Have it. Bitching about people with widescreen is like someone forced to run the game at 800x600 bitching about people that can run higher res, or have more details that can give them an advantage.

o_kam · 10-07-2006, 03:19 AM

default_fov 120

o_dancingfool · 10-07-2006, 03:37 AM

ftw^

Mulchman MM · 10-07-2006, 05:54 AM

fov != 90 is cheating

personal opinion, not representative of ff in any way with this comment

o_a boojum snark · 10-07-2006, 05:55 AM

Unless it's 180. Then it's okay!

Defrag · 10-07-2006, 06:50 AM

I personally couldn't care less whether someone has a widescreen. If someone wants to get a widescreen monitor that's up to them. Bear in mind that, when comparing monitors of the same size but different aspect ratios, the widescreen user sacrifices height for width. A 24" widescreen has pretty much exactly the same height as a 20" 4:3 standard monitor. So while the widescreen dude can see more fov-wise, pound for pound and dollar for dollar, I don't really see it as much of an advantage as many people like to make out.

Click here to see what I mean.

It's probably a more natural type of aspect ratio (hold your arms out laterally and you can probably still see both hands in your peripheral vision, then try the same thing vertically and not even close) but right now most designs & applications are tailored towards 4:3 monitors so I'm giving widescreen a miss for the moment. Just ordered two Dell 2007FP monitors as I was able to get a really good deal. Been saving my pennies for a long time, as my Dell P1110 CRT is just about kaput. I'm broke again, but it'll be worth it. I hope. Or I will kill. Again.

o_eat · 10-07-2006, 07:57 AM

Im with you patty. Death to the fov whores!

If you're gonna say widescreen is cheating where does it end? People with an amazing graphics card get a HUGE advantage in terms of fps. Everyone should play on TNT2s?

o_luminous · 10-07-2006, 08:33 AM

bare in mind that his eyes have a lot further to travel to see if what he saw in his perefiral vision was actually what he thought, which people using 4:3 dont have to have. i have a 19inch widescreen and its alot more noticable scanning around the screen looking for possible movement than on my old 4:3 ;\

**mervaka** · 10-07-2006, 09:03 AM

anyone remember the sonic vortex 2 sound cards? those were so bad, they were banned - because they were too realistic. they traced reflections and occlusions too well, it was considered too much of an advantage?

pathetic

o_dammage · 10-07-2006, 09:17 AM

We see 180°, but the monitors allow only ~80-90° (the 90° we see sharp, the other 90° sharper/less sharp or just unseen. It is directly connected with IQ - the higher, the further you come to 180°. Test it with kids in the age of 6-7 years, they see just 90°).

So fov is just a way to compensate the lacking degrees. Usually you can still see ~10° on each side out of the sharp field very well. Fov at 110° is still playable, max 115. Everything bigger is just simple fisheye and limits your aim anyways.

You should worry about fov lower than 90° as it has a zoom effect.

o_don · 10-07-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mervaka

anyone remember the sonic vortex 2 sound cards? those were so bad, they were banned - because they were too realistic. they traced reflections and occlusions too well, it was considered too much of an advantage?

pathetic

?? tell me more...

P.S. I think people with widescreen should have the advantage. Just like people with an expensive high quality mouse have a gameplay advantage. Or a comfy seat meaning greater concentration. etc..
Anyway, most of the time in tfc (or cs) you use your hearing and aim your cursor at what you want to look at. The difference in time it takes for your eye to catch on to an enemy on a widescreen monitor vs. turning your mouse around and 'looking' more often on standard monitors is very small. A very small time advantage. If you are alert and anticipate events when you play, there should be no problems.

o_wlvy · 10-07-2006, 03:45 PM

just something on what the guy mentioned a few posts above, about 180 degree vision.

I remember when I used to play CS a lot years back. When something happens in the corner of your vision you tend not to notice it as much, or react as quickly. For example, if a dull light flashes infront of your face, you see it instantly and react. If it's in the corner of your vision, you react a little slower. Ok in reality it will only be a few .ms which in our time isn't much.

However, the wierd thing is, when I used to play CS a lot, where you generally have to concentrate on things happening in the corner of the monitor (a la your vision) and react quicker, this had a direct influence on real life. Since playing TFC/CS a lot less I've found my reaction time getting slower.

I guess the above situation is very obvious as such games do test and improve your reaction speed and observation, I just find it very interesting that a computer game can have some posative effects upon reality.

I've noticed playing tetris addictivly on my mobile phone has made solving problems at work a lot easier. Strange!

o_darknight · 10-07-2006, 03:51 PM

Oh man I want that setup for my CS games.

"omgosh, how did you know to turn around?"

Defrag · 10-07-2006, 04:26 PM

Wlvy: Your peripheral vision is actually very sensitive, it's just not so useful at actually picking out what you're seeing. I.e. it's excellent at detecting motion, but not necessarily great at identifying what it is that's moving.

o_mercutio · 10-07-2006, 06:25 PM

Unless it's a spider, you just always know.

o_sabre · 10-07-2006, 06:31 PM

Werd, fuck those scary mofo's.

10-07-2006, 01:59 AM	#1
o_pyromainiac Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	widescreen = unfair advantage? I remembered that in source people with widescreen or multiple monitors get to see more rather then getting a stretched image. I did a search and came up with this thread but I would just like a stance from the devs if anything will be done about stuff like this: I couldn't really care, more fun for people with setups like that, but some leagues might like a server command to disable that wide of a resolution.

10-07-2006, 05:54 AM	#8
Mulchman MM Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lacey, WA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	fov != 90 is cheating personal opinion, not representative of ff in any way with this comment __________________ Head of the Orca Revolution (TM)

10-07-2006, 06:50 AM	#10
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I personally couldn't care less whether someone has a widescreen. If someone wants to get a widescreen monitor that's up to them. Bear in mind that, when comparing monitors of the same size but different aspect ratios, the widescreen user sacrifices height for width. A 24" widescreen has pretty much exactly the same height as a 20" 4:3 standard monitor. So while the widescreen dude can see more fov-wise, pound for pound and dollar for dollar, I don't really see it as much of an advantage as many people like to make out. Click here to see what I mean. It's probably a more natural type of aspect ratio (hold your arms out laterally and you can probably still see both hands in your peripheral vision, then try the same thing vertically and not even close) but right now most designs & applications are tailored towards 4:3 monitors so I'm giving widescreen a miss for the moment. Just ordered two Dell 2007FP monitors as I was able to get a really good deal. Been saving my pennies for a long time, as my Dell P1110 CRT is just about kaput. I'm broke again, but it'll be worth it. I hope. Or I will kill. Again. __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot. Last edited by Defrag; 10-07-2006 at 06:56 AM.

10-07-2006, 09:03 AM	#13
mervaka A Very Sound Guy! Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts Rated Helpful 15 Times	anyone remember the sonic vortex 2 sound cards? those were so bad, they were banned - because they were too realistic. they traced reflections and occlusions too well, it was considered too much of an advantage? pathetic __________________ Support FF:

10-07-2006, 04:26 PM	#18
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Wlvy: Your peripheral vision is actually very sensitive, it's just not so useful at actually picking out what you're seeing. I.e. it's excellent at detecting motion, but not necessarily great at identifying what it is that's moving. __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot.

10-07-2006, 02:07 AM	#2
o_dancingfool Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I say if you pay for it you deserve it, plus it's not exactly a HUGE advantage.

10-07-2006, 02:19 AM	#4
o_imbrifer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Changes every few months Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I could see it being an advantage. You notice things in your pariph' that others wouldn't (because they dont have the screen). I dont think that people with more cash in real life should get an advantage this big in games. (And yeah, you can get a really nice monitor, or really sweet headphones but they wouldnt give you as big as advantage as having 3x the visibility does). I think that if you have the hardware you should be able to do it, but it should be a server/map variable that can be turned off/on.

10-07-2006, 02:22 AM	#5
o_osiris Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: In your pants. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Having bought a 20inch widescreen a few months back, I'd be a bit pissed off if it was declared an unfair advantage and not able to be used in the game. I'm not one to have multiple monitors to see as much as that guy can, but the way I look at it is if the guy paid the money for it, who cares, let him have it. If he think's that much money is worth it to win a game, that's great for him. 1680x1050 doesnt add much viewing area anyways, im sure 1920 is a bit more noticable but then again, if you're paying for it. Have it. Bitching about people with widescreen is like someone forced to run the game at 800x600 bitching about people that can run higher res, or have more details that can give them an advantage.

10-07-2006, 03:19 AM	#6
o_kam Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	default_fov 120

10-07-2006, 03:37 AM	#7
o_dancingfool Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	ftw^

10-07-2006, 05:55 AM	#9
o_a boojum snark Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orion Arm Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Unless it's 180. Then it's okay!

10-07-2006, 07:57 AM	#11
o_eat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Im with you patty. Death to the fov whores! If you're gonna say widescreen is cheating where does it end? People with an amazing graphics card get a HUGE advantage in terms of fps. Everyone should play on TNT2s?

10-07-2006, 08:33 AM	#12
o_luminous Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	bare in mind that his eyes have a lot further to travel to see if what he saw in his perefiral vision was actually what he thought, which people using 4:3 dont have to have. i have a 19inch widescreen and its alot more noticable scanning around the screen looking for possible movement than on my old 4:3 ;\

10-07-2006, 09:17 AM	#14
o_dammage Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	We see 180°, but the monitors allow only ~80-90° (the 90° we see sharp, the other 90° sharper/less sharp or just unseen. It is directly connected with IQ - the higher, the further you come to 180°. Test it with kids in the age of 6-7 years, they see just 90°). So fov is just a way to compensate the lacking degrees. Usually you can still see ~10° on each side out of the sharp field very well. Fov at 110° is still playable, max 115. Everything bigger is just simple fisheye and limits your aim anyways. You should worry about fov lower than 90° as it has a zoom effect.

10-07-2006, 03:45 PM	#16
o_wlvy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	just something on what the guy mentioned a few posts above, about 180 degree vision. I remember when I used to play CS a lot years back. When something happens in the corner of your vision you tend not to notice it as much, or react as quickly. For example, if a dull light flashes infront of your face, you see it instantly and react. If it's in the corner of your vision, you react a little slower. Ok in reality it will only be a few .ms which in our time isn't much. However, the wierd thing is, when I used to play CS a lot, where you generally have to concentrate on things happening in the corner of the monitor (a la your vision) and react quicker, this had a direct influence on real life. Since playing TFC/CS a lot less I've found my reaction time getting slower. I guess the above situation is very obvious as such games do test and improve your reaction speed and observation, I just find it very interesting that a computer game can have some posative effects upon reality. I've noticed playing tetris addictivly on my mobile phone has made solving problems at work a lot easier. Strange!

10-07-2006, 03:51 PM	#17
o_darknight Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Yorkshire Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Oh man I want that setup for my CS games. "omgosh, how did you know to turn around?"

10-07-2006, 06:25 PM	#19
o_mercutio Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Unless it's a spider, you just always know.

10-07-2006, 06:31 PM	#20
o_sabre Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Manchester, Uk Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Werd, fuck those scary mofo's.

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