(Beta) FF_MORTALITY_B2

[zE]

ff_mortality_gz_b1 to ff_mortality_b2








Fixed version, as a request of dr.satan for ugc league, not sure if its too late for it, but had several issues with it, that took me some time to fix.

-fixed several mistplaced textures
-fixed several streched textures
-fixed water flagroom ladders/ yard water ladder so u dont get stuck under them
-Added envoirment sounds
-Removed massive skybox around the map, and placed it just around the yard
-Added envoirment_light with the recomended brigntness and ambience light for the skybox
-Added a bit more lighning in flagroom and in yard
-Added cheap water in yard
-Fixed water tunels bugs
-Fixed map leaks
-Changed several textures
-Lowered top base entrance
-Added a highter skybox so u can conc without hiting the skybox
-Smaller bsp from 15 megas to 10 megas
-Improved fps

Lua changes thanks to ynfi/squeek)
Now the demoman spaws always at top respaw in the first round, then respaws always in lower respaw
Soldier/heavy spaws always at lower respaw
offie/ng spaws randomly in bot spaws

Dowload link : ff_mortality_b2

[Elmo]

ooooo - chop chop with the DL link

[oTTo]

good work ze

[GenghisTron]

When you say you 'removed the massive skybox', are you referring to the fact that as a scout you could almost always conc on top of the base?

[Elmo]

no he means the way that gnaa put a sky 'box' around the entire map to deal with leaks.. which is bad mapping

[GenghisTron]

lol fail

[Dr.Satan]

NICE, it's a bit late for the map this week, but will definitely be nice later on and in pickups. Although I'm not really excited about this:

Originally Posted by zE

Lua changes thanks to ynfi/squeek)
Now the demoman spaws always at top respaw in the first round, then respaws always in lower respaw
Soldier/heavy spaws always at lower respaw
offie/ng spaws randomly in bot spaws

wrt demo - why should he get the extra boost to start? Makes no since IMO and takes away a bit of the first run excitement/race to the flagroom. Also could/should probably just look at the .lua, but how did you manage that? Did you use like a timer so it's not really "first round" but more like the first x seconds of the map? Or is it actually like the first time for any demo he spawns top, and if I join halfway thru map and spawn demo I'll spawn top? Either way it still seems kinda stupid to me tbh, but just curious.

I would rather just see all just spawn bottom like I was initially going to do when you pm'd me and told me the map was yours too and not just gnaa's.

Random spawns are shitty all around b/c when you spawn your getting a crappy spawn half the time. Especially on this map where; as O, if you spawn top you loose hp dropping down out of the window into yard which is kinda lame to punish someone for a map design flaw. And as D, if you spawn bottom you loose precious seconds getting back into position, which would be fine if everyone spawned there always b/c then it's standard, but when there's the chance you could be spawning top and you don't you feel cheated somehow.

Plus when your O and you kill a player, any good player is going to know/calculate how much time you have before they are back into position and what routes to take to avoid them. ie: if you kill the engy you know he'll be down for about 2/3 seconds, that there is likely going to be an emp tossed at bottom entry to foyer, and therefore would go top and go for SG. But with the spawn how you have it now, you can't really do that correctly.

idk just my 2 cents. I am glad to see you updated the map, but I am also kinda disappointed to see that the one thing I started out to do/get done didn't really happen.

[Elmo]

boom!! There goes another in favour of all bottom...

[yfni]

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

NICE, it's a bit late for the map this week, but will definitely be nice later on and in pickups. Although I'm not really excited about this:



wrt demo - why should he get the extra boost to start? Makes no since IMO and takes away a bit of the first run excitement/race to the flagroom. Also could/should probably just look at the .lua, but how did you manage that? Did you use like a timer so it's not really "first round" but more like the first x seconds of the map? Or is it actually like the first time for any demo he spawns top, and if I join halfway thru map and spawn demo I'll spawn top? Either way it still seems kinda stupid to me tbh, but just curious.

I kept the random spawns for offy in because that's what most people wanted and with most people I mean the people that actually play this map alot.

As a result of keeping that and the higher skybox and a little lower battlements. I needed to atleast give the defense a chance to stop the first scout rush and spawning a demo top once does that. It's not going to be easy for a demo to stop a scout either way.

On the old mortality you were likely to meet atleast some defense player spawning top. With the changes made I needed to come up with an idea to counter that. (it was really gators idea)

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

I would rather just see all just spawn bottom like I was initially going to do when you pm'd me and told me the map was yours too and not just gnaa's.

Random spawns are shitty all around b/c when you spawn your getting a crappy spawn half the time. Especially on this map where; as O, if you spawn top you loose hp dropping down out of the window into yard which is kinda lame to punish someone for a map design flaw. And as D, if you spawn bottom you loose precious seconds getting back into position, which would be fine if everyone spawned there always b/c then it's standard, but when there's the chance you could be spawning top and you don't you feel cheated somehow.

Plus when your O and you kill a player, any good player is going to know/calculate how much time you have before they are back into position and what routes to take to avoid them. ie: if you kill the engy you know he'll be down for about 2/3 seconds, that there is likely going to be an emp tossed at bottom entry to foyer, and therefore would go top and go for SG. But with the spawn how you have it now, you can't really do that correctly.

idk just my 2 cents. I am glad to see you updated the map, but I am also kinda disappointed to see that the one thing I started out to do/get done didn't really happen.

Like I said from a competetive point of view spawning random may not seem like a good idea and I agree that how it was may have influenced games because of where someone spawned. I now have reduced that by alot!

The other point of view that many value is the fun factor. And it's something I have discussed with the people that play this map alot. They value spawning randomly because it's fun to do things differently from time to time. trying to conc from bat to bat etc. Same goes for engineers. It's the mort the we know and love... I tried to protect that. I think I have reduced the unfairness enough for it to not be a deciding factor anymore. (if it ever was).

[yfni]

download lua + map @
http://www.filefortress.eu/mapdownload.php?map=21

it's already on milkwood & tf server

[zE]

used same link for post dl : )

[killu]

I support random spawning!

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by yfni

I kept the random spawns for offy in because that's what most people wanted and with most people I mean the people that actually play this map alot.

Well first off, what people want and what is good map design and creates the best playing experience aren't always the same. As an O player I want the flag to be easily accessible and to get lots of caps, but that doesn't mean that a map that is built for D isn't going to provide a good playing experience or that the map is designed badly. That's not to say that they both can't be the same, but that they don't have to, and aren't always going to, be.

Random spawns, however, are just bad, they always have been and always will be. The only time they really aren't are in a map like bases where both spawns are relatively equal distance away from all defensive positions and spawning one over the other doesn't give you a disadvantage. In this map your giving a HUGE advantage to any defender that spawns top as well as a major disadvantage to any offensive player. And I'm not sure how I can really explain that further tbh.

Originally Posted by yfni

As a result of keeping that and the higher skybox and a little lower battlements. I needed to atleast give the defense a chance to stop the first scout rush and spawning a demo top once does that. It's not going to be easy for a demo to stop a scout either way.

On the old mortality you were likely to meet atleast some defense player spawning top. With the changes made I needed to come up with an idea to counter that. (it was really gators idea)

If you have a static resup on bottom; a scout has to get out the bottom, around the corner thru the hall, conc across the yard, land up top, go through the 2nd floor, and across the fr to the flag. If your honestly trying to tell me that a demo, engy, and/or solly can't beat that scout...then idk what they are doing in their resup but it's definitely not right. Additionally the solly can (and probably will) just rocket jump up to the ceiling to get into position anyhow and was usually the defensive player you were "likely to meet". BUT even IF the scout really could beat them all...then he still has to take the flag OUT of the flagroom past all of them. So even if they get the flag they likely will only move it to the shoot or ramps or up top to the solly position. Either way they probably won't get a coast2coast with it. So basically all you've done is ensure that O won't get squat from the scout rush now, b/c by the time they get there, the flag is going to have a mirv on it and it's going to be next to impossible to pull a cap out.

Originally Posted by yfni

Like I said from a competetive point of view spawning random may not seem like a good idea and I agree that how it was may have influenced games because of where someone spawned. I now have reduced that by alot!

The other point of view that many value is the fun factor. And it's something I have discussed with the people that play this map alot. They value spawning randomly because it's fun to do things differently from time to time. trying to conc from bat to bat etc. Same goes for engineers. It's the mort the we know and love... I tried to protect that. I think I have reduced the unfairness enough for it to not be a deciding factor anymore. (if it ever was).

Right, but the whole reason these changes even happened was because I was going to take the .vmf that gnaa left me and simply remove random spawning...that was literally all I was going to do. But zE got upset and claimed that the map was "50/50" between him and gnaa, so I requested that he instead fix it for me and any other issues he knew about ASAP so that I could get a fixed version out for the matches last week. IE: To fix the map so that it was better competitively by removing the random spawn. And while you have "reduced it a lot," you've not done enough IMO and in fact went further to add in a bunch of really unnecessary stuff when all you had to do was delete those spawns.

wrt the "fun factor," that seems like kind of a stretch really. Yes it's nice to mix things up...but if you really think that where you spawn in a map is what makes the map fun, then I'm wasting my time explaining all of this.

Either way, it's your map (or zE's or gnaa's or whoever's) and you can do with it what you want...the only reason I even tried to fix it is b/c was given the .vmf (by the person I was led to understand mapped it), it would have taken 5min (in fact I was literally compiling the fixed version when zE pm'd me and I think it took like 20 sec. to fix), and I was under the impression that the map was made by gnaa and only textured by zE. And I just think it's silly that after all that, the one thing I wanted done for the league didn't even happen.

[RnZ]

I support random spamming!

[zE]

If some guys here nice, and friendly i would do exacly as u guys wanted, this is not to dr.satan cuse hes cool, but anyway i have a democratic spirit so i do what majority wants, and not what 1 person tells me to. And btw i lost like 12 hours in 3 days, to fix it, this comments are a bit ungrateful but meh.

[slamdunk]

good job zE dont listen those jerks u did a good job. this version is better and easy to conc to top

[RnZ]

ye its way better and looks gooder lolz

[caesium]

afaik nobody has said that it's not a nice improvement over the last version or that anyone's efforts to help develop FF aren't v much appreciated. all the feedback i've seen and given has consistently made clear that this version goes a good way to addressing most of the issues and will be a v welcome improvement over the previous version, so thanks to everyone involved for putting the hours in to get it done.

imo it's a shame that it hasn't been possible to get the one simple spawn change that was really wanted for the league implemented fully even now (you've made a big step towards that with this version, which is a great improvement, so thanks v much for doing that), and it's also a shame that it wasn't possible to get that done in time for the league last week as was the intention. the first of those 2 issues has been attempted to be discussed in this thread in a constructive manner by satan, so pls try to see that so that perhaps the issue can be discussed properly rather than ppl just getting offended at constructive criticism and nothing positive resulting from it, and the latter issue is really just more of a frustration (as clearly it's too late to do anything about that now) but may be worthwhile noting so we can try to prevent it happening again in the future.

overall, i'm v much looking forward to playing the new version lots and welcome any future improvements, so thanks v much for your hard work. anyone who isn't grateful has probably never tried to make a map..

[Elmo]

yeah, definitely! I'm certainly happy that I can no longer get stuck underneath a ladder that I'm trying to climb

[zE]

anyway, its as i sayd if majority wants completly remove top spaw ill just compile a b3, just takes some 20 min or so, cuse the other issues are now fixed.