Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Community > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2011, 03:35 AM   #21
KubeDawg
Nade Whore
Server Owner
Beta Tester
 
KubeDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Class/Position: Scout/Soldier
Gametype: CTF/TDM
Affiliations: blunt. Moto
Posts Rated Helpful 128 Times
I know some ideas are being tested in beta, but I don't know if I can divulge any details about it. I know telling people about a 'possible' feature, and then that feature gets scrapped, would be the main reason to prevent me from saying anything, but I think transparency from the Dev team to the FF community is important, even if something doesn't get finished or implemented into the game.

Remember when FF was being developed and you saw those dev journals, sorta showing people the progress of the mod as they were working on it? Well, that's what actually got me excited to play FF and I was checking the forums at least weekly before its release.

Progress shows potential results, and having the community's input or suggestions would be a great thing, IMO.
__________________
Moto's Funhouse | Dallas, TX - 74.91.114.247:27015

ff_plunder - Complete
KubeDawg is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 08-25-2011, 04:05 AM   #22
Raynian
D&A Member
 
Raynian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO
Gametype: Ragequitting
Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney]
Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
Idea. After the sniper looses a round, he immediately drops to ~150 speed, slowly rising back up to 280 over 3 seconds. He can still fire in this time, but each shot will put his speed back to 150.

Oh and also drop his base speed to 280.
__________________
7:00 PM - zE: eh tbh i like some stuff in us but a lot of stuff in us messes with my nerves
7:00 PM - zE: like watching fox news
7:00 PM - zE: its like wtf
Raynian is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-25-2011, 08:49 PM   #23
BinaryLife
Posts: 1 bajillion
D&A Member
Wiki Team
 
BinaryLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Gametype: CTF
Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
Send a message via AIM to BinaryLife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynian View Post
Idea. After the sniper looses a round, he immediately drops to ~150 speed, slowly rising back up to 280 over 3 seconds. He can still fire in this time, but each shot will put his speed back to 150.

Oh and also drop his base speed to 280.
Balance is key. The problem I have with your suggestions is that they come from a place of frustration, hate, and malice. You take whatever problems you have with the sniper our on it by suggesting it get its arms chopped off (metaphorically speaking of course. All though I'm surprised you have yet to suggest it)

We get that you don't like the class. We also get that it frustrates you. However just like you have your favorite classes, there are people that exist, who aren't you, that like playing as and against the sniper. Your idea directly punishes the player for shooting. It motivates the player to shoot less often. Effectively, taking the class out of the game since the best strategy for the sniper will be to shoot as rarely as possible. That doesn't sound like fun in my opinion.

Again, I understand your frustration. But try finding the exact point of your annoyance. Then think about what you wish you could do to fix it. With me, it's walking out onto the yard and getting sniped over and over. My goal here is just to help you be a little more constructive. I do respect that you want the sniper to pretty much disappear, but I vehemently disagree.
BinaryLife is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-25-2011, 09:19 PM   #24
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLife View Post
there are people that exist, who aren't you, that like playing as and against the sniper.
Are there people that enjoy playing against a sniper as a non-sniper class?
__________________
#FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-25-2011, 09:44 PM   #25
BinaryLife
Posts: 1 bajillion
D&A Member
Wiki Team
 
BinaryLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Gametype: CTF
Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
Send a message via AIM to BinaryLife
I do when the map is set so that I can sneak out of the base. I find it to be a challenge to have to sneak up on a sniper and kill him. It requires me to move perfectly random and aim as well as I can with the longest range weapon I can in order to keep the sniper occupied while I can distance. Good snipers will aim for my foot and end this scenario early, and sadly. But that's why any suggestion I'd make to change the line up would be to make it easier to effect their aim from a longer distance.
BinaryLife is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-26-2011, 06:16 AM   #26
Raynian
D&A Member
 
Raynian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO
Gametype: Ragequitting
Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney]
Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
I don't like what you said.

I don't like having to 'sneak' out of my base to get to the action involving what should be, in the interest of the game, anywhere from 4-8 people on defense.

I don't like having to spend an extra 20 seconds taking the water route on 2fort so I don't get instapopped by one faggot who stands 3 seconds outside spawn.

I don't like being in plain view of the enemy sniper on aardvark, with no way to reliably get past other than "go fast".

I don't like feeling like there's no reason to chase the third fastest class in the game.

So no, I don't like snipers.
__________________
7:00 PM - zE: eh tbh i like some stuff in us but a lot of stuff in us messes with my nerves
7:00 PM - zE: like watching fox news
7:00 PM - zE: its like wtf
Raynian is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-26-2011, 02:59 PM   #27
BinaryLife
Posts: 1 bajillion
D&A Member
Wiki Team
 
BinaryLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Gametype: CTF
Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times
Send a message via AIM to BinaryLife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynian View Post
I don't like what you said.

I don't like having to 'sneak' out of my base to get to the action involving what should be, in the interest of the game, anywhere from 4-8 people on defense.

I don't like having to spend an extra 20 seconds taking the water route on 2fort so I don't get instapopped by one faggot who stands 3 seconds outside spawn.

I don't like being in plain view of the enemy sniper on aardvark, with no way to reliably get past other than "go fast".

I don't like feeling like there's no reason to chase the third fastest class in the game.

So no, I don't like snipers.
Throw in a couple of rhymes and you could write an opinionated children's book. I agree, and understand that you don't like snipers. My only point to you has been a request for you to understand that you are not the only person who plays FF and some of those other players enjoy playing the sniper class. When two people disagree a comprise, often a reasonable one, is the best solution to create a balanced game.
BinaryLife is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 08-27-2011, 08:30 PM   #28
Raynian
D&A Member
 
Raynian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ruining #pickups
Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO
Gametype: Ragequitting
Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney]
Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times
I want snipers removed.

You want them the same.

The compromise here is that they get toned down some.

Your passive aggressive tone punctuated with therapeutic language to try to dodge the issue in portraying my arguments as childish, while implying your own are well thought out and thus more reasonable and should be taken absolutely as they are...it simply makes me lose even more respect for you.

EDIT by squeek: *snip* No need for this
User received an infraction for this post
__________________
7:00 PM - zE: eh tbh i like some stuff in us but a lot of stuff in us messes with my nerves
7:00 PM - zE: like watching fox news
7:00 PM - zE: its like wtf

Last edited by squeek.; 08-27-2011 at 08:39 PM.
Raynian is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-27-2011, 09:31 PM   #29
reaper18
sKeeD
D&A Member
Beta Tester
 
reaper18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Class/Position: Scout, Demo, Solly
Gametype: Any
Posts Rated Helpful 21 Times
Send a message via AIM to reaper18
Projectile sniper = the best of both worlds.
It eliminates the instakill aspect and creates a skill base for the sniper. Making the class deeper than 'point and click'.
reaper18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-27-2011, 10:39 PM   #30
chilledsanity
D&A Member
 
chilledsanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted
Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLife
My only point to you has been a request for you to understand that you are not the only person who plays FF and some of those other players enjoy playing the sniper class.
I'd say your stance is unbalanced however for this reason:
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek
Are there people that enjoy playing against a sniper as a non-sniper class?
No one wants to go up against a sniper because at a long enough distance, it's always a stacked fight. Every other class is much more of a fair fight to engage. Hwguy? Conc him and watch him try to adapt. Sg? Shoot it out from a distance and ruin the ng's day, etc.

So by definition, we're saying we have a class that some people like to play, but no one likes to play against. One of the reasons I was never that interested in TF2 was because it had invulnerability, which I thought made things a little pointless. Even though NO ONE likes playing against an invulnerable player, I'm sure the people who are invincible have a great time. It's the same principle. I bet everyone who enjoys playing as sniper would cease enjoying it if they played AGAINST a good sniper as a non-sniper. Personally I don't think that's the sort of crowd the game should be balanced around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper18
Projectile sniper = the best of both worlds.
It eliminates the instakill aspect and creates a skill base for the sniper. Making the class deeper than 'point and click'.
I'm not sure that would make much difference other than marginalizing the best snipers or else forcing everyone to zigzag and take 3x longer getting across a yard.

Maybe there's an obvious problem with it I'm missing, but one idea would be to have the sniper shoot poison rounds that don't kill anyone right away, but will after a given length of time. So say you're shot in the yard, you could have maybe 20 - 40 seconds left to live, then you immediately die. This could allow O to keep running and do some damage or make a flag grab, but it could definitely kneecap their potential, and make simply stalling the player a defensive tactic.
chilledsanity is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 01:33 AM   #31
punkrockrocks
When patch will out?
 
punkrockrocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Battlefield-style bullet drop on the sniper bullet
__________________
MAKE MORE ESCAPE MAPS
Ingame: punkrock
Idle and support #nozoom, #ff.pickup
punkrockrocks is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 02:10 AM   #32
reaper18
sKeeD
D&A Member
Beta Tester
 
reaper18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Class/Position: Scout, Demo, Solly
Gametype: Any
Posts Rated Helpful 21 Times
Send a message via AIM to reaper18
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
I'm not sure that would make much difference other than marginalizing the best snipers or else forcing everyone to zigzag and take 3x longer getting across a yard.

Maybe there's an obvious problem with it I'm missing, but one idea would be to have the sniper shoot poison rounds that don't kill anyone right away, but will after a given length of time. So say you're shot in the yard, you could have maybe 20 - 40 seconds left to live, then you immediately die. This could allow O to keep running and do some damage or make a flag grab, but it could definitely kneecap their potential, and make simply stalling the player a defensive tactic.
Testing would determine how well this would work, but it would certainly eliminate a lot of the feelings that youve been killed with 0 effort. I do understand that it can take skill in order to execute shots as the sniper, but that skill is interpreted as spam to an opposing player. If shots were to take a little time to travel, the sniper himself would have much more gratification with a kill, and the dead player would have a better understand that the sniper actually worked for his kill; That lessens the feeling that youve been camped COD style
reaper18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 10:44 AM   #33
angrypyro
D&A Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper18 View Post
Projectile sniper = the best of both worlds.
It eliminates the instakill aspect and creates a skill base for the sniper. Making the class deeper than 'point and click'.
It would have to be finely tuned for balance though if this were to happen. Right now the sniper is the only weapon I can think of that doesn't have spread/explosion or rapid fire except for traq.

Also there's the issue of projectile weapons not hitting the center of the crosshairs. A projectile sniper would amplify this.
ex: http://i.imgur.com/v3RrB.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
Maybe there's an obvious problem with it I'm missing, but one idea would be to have the sniper shoot poison rounds that don't kill anyone right away, but will after a given length of time. So say you're shot in the yard, you could have maybe 20 - 40 seconds left to live, then you immediately die. This could allow O to keep running and do some damage or make a flag grab, but it could definitely kneecap their potential, and make simply stalling the player a defensive tactic.
Wasn't this what the medic's infection did but it was removed because it was annoying?
angrypyro is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 11:24 AM   #34
chilledsanity
D&A Member
 
chilledsanity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted
Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper18 View Post
Testing would determine how well this would work, but it would certainly eliminate a lot of the feelings that youve been killed with 0 effort. I do understand that it can take skill in order to execute shots as the sniper, but that skill is interpreted as spam to an opposing player. If shots were to take a little time to travel, the sniper himself would have much more gratification with a kill, and the dead player would have a better understand that the sniper actually worked for his kill; That lessens the feeling that youve been camped COD style
I see what you're saying, but a good sniper leads his shots on moving targets anyway. Hell, anyone experienced with tranq shots already does this. It would definitely reduce the number of kills, but I'm not sure how substantial the difference would be for the good snipers anyway. Maybe I'm overestimating though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angrypyro View Post
Wasn't this what the medic's infection did but it was removed because it was annoying?
It would be a little different, since it wouldn't tick off health or jar your view, just start a timer. As for annoying, is that more or less annoying than dying in the yard multiple times before you even get to the base?

Last edited by chilledsanity; 08-28-2011 at 11:39 AM.
chilledsanity is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 12:57 PM   #35
Gwarsbane
Slayer of humans
D&A Member
 
Gwarsbane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mostly on earth though in some alt dimensions
Class/Position: I'm an Offensive Defensive person
Gametype: Fortress Forever
Affiliations: I'm a merc, only thing that talks is money
Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek. View Post
Are there people that enjoy playing against a sniper as a non-sniper class?
Yes, I do it all the game, and while not 100% of the time, I do it effectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity View Post
I'd say your stance is unbalanced however for this reason:
No one wants to go up against a sniper because at a long enough distance, it's always a stacked fight. Every other class is much more of a fair fight to engage. Hwguy? Conc him and watch him try to adapt. Sg? Shoot it out from a distance and ruin the ng's day, etc.
You're wrong because yes there are people who enjoy going up against a sniper as a non-sniper class at long distance.

I'm one of them. And I am pretty good at figuring out how to get out of the base and getting into the enemy base.

Heck even on aardvark, as a spy, I have been able to come out of the sniper deck, get across the map, get up on the enemy sniper deck and stab the snipers. And these aren't noob snipers, these are the snipers that people "complain" about being too good. Many say they are cheating, but I know better cause I can kill them and I'm not the best player out there.

Can snipers be frustrating? Yes But so can any other class when you have a decent player playing them.

I piss off people as a spy, pyro, demo, heavy and sniper. I know others that piss people off as scout, engi, soldier and medic because they are so good.


Sniper is good as is, though I do like the idea of recoil to the gun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by angrypyro View Post
Also there's the issue of projectile weapons not hitting the center of the crosshairs. A projectile sniper would amplify this.
ex: http://i.imgur.com/v3RrB.jpg
That brings up a very good point. Until this is fixed, I don't think it should be an actual projectile.
Gwarsbane is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 02:05 PM   #36
reaper18
sKeeD
D&A Member
Beta Tester
 
reaper18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Class/Position: Scout, Demo, Solly
Gametype: Any
Posts Rated Helpful 21 Times
Send a message via AIM to reaper18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwarsbane View Post
That brings up a very good point. Until this is fixed, I don't think it should be an actual projectile.
The reason for this has been stated before; its because the actual projectile comes out of the gun instead of the middle of your screen. It would make sense while the sniper is on your hip, but when in zoomed mode, the bullet should then come out of the center. (Or at least, appear to)
reaper18 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 04:17 PM   #37
Iggy
Heartless Threadkiller
Beta Tester
Forum Moderator
 
Iggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Class/Position: D-Solly / O-Medic
Gametype: CTF
Affiliations: [AE] AssEaters
Posts Rated Helpful 42 Times
Ok, if the sights on your real life gun are off.... you adjust them until they are spot on. Right or wrong?
The crosshair is there to show you where you're aiming. If the aim isn't true, then it needs to be fixed. If that means moving the crosshairs off to the side a bit to match, then do it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox
See kids? Only Iggy and FT are good enough to post when high.
Publishers Website My book on BN.com My book on Amazon.com

Friend me on Facebook
Follow me on Twitter
Iggy is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 08:04 PM   #38
squeek.
Stuff Do-er
Lua Team
Wiki Team
Fortress Forever Staff
 
squeek.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern California
Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter
Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait)
Affiliations: Mustache Brigade
Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times
Send a message via AIM to squeek.
It's only off at close ranges. It converges on the crosshair over distance.
__________________
#FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups

My Non-official Maps
Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic
Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight

Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan.
- Karl Pilkington
squeek. is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 08:19 PM   #39
angrypyro
D&A Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Gametype: Capture the Flag
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper18 View Post
The reason for this has been stated before; its because the actual projectile comes out of the gun instead of the middle of your screen. It would make sense while the sniper is on your hip, but when in zoomed mode, the bullet should then come out of the center. (Or at least, appear to)
Another source engine mod I play Dystopia has projectile weapons also that come out from the gun but still hits at the crosshair. Maybe a developer can look at it and see/ask how they fixed it?
angrypyro is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 08-28-2011, 11:01 PM   #40
Agent Buckshot Moose
Wiki Standards Team
Wiki Team
 
Agent Buckshot Moose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Geokill's closet
Class/Position: Sniper/Demoman
Gametype: CTF
Affiliations: :e0: Co-leader
Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times
If it's a projectile, it will A) have to hit things and B) be basically instant at close/medium range.
Agent Buckshot Moose is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.