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Old 01-30-2008, 09:07 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiSCoS
If you lower the time down, demoman will be a class playable by the noobest person at a elite skill. With a lower time, like darkness said i can kill you by piping downward and it blows in ur face instead of you running past the blue pipe or it going past you. Blue pipes were ment to be shot a good range but for close range is where the skill plays in. Making DIRECT hits is what the skill is, not having them shoot in a general area of a enemy and killing them like that.
You still have to pretty much get direct hits. Blues are still quite easy to dodge, but instead of being able to ignore them completely if they miss you, you have to pay attention to where they are headed.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:26 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiSCoS
If you lower the time down, demoman will be a class playable by the noobest person at a elite skill.
I'm glad we're not grossly over-reacting or anything.

And why the fuck is this its own thread? Merging.
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:24 PM   #303
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The patch just got a few new additions that makes it a lot sweeter, some of which were mentioned in this thread already. Wish I could say more.

As for "Why don't we make the community's game", well... the community has a lot of great people. Many of them are beta testers.

The community also has a lot of idiots who would like Snipers to have uncharged instakills and Demos to have shit like six MIRVs. Not happening.

The beta system works. The devs pick out members from the community who can make a contribution, and largely they have been on the mark with their picks.

And that is not to say that criticism does not happen in the beta forums. Some of the arguments have been fierce - people hotly debating the pros and cons of a suggested new addition.

Very rarely is something "just put in" the beta update - it is often mentioned and discussed first. The devs implement it in some form and then it is refined further and discussed further. A few things have been completely tossed out the window before they make it into the patch, and rightly so.

This game has some of the best Q.C. you will ever see. Bugs like in the 1.0 release were, to the testers, virtually nonexistant; otherwise they would have been squashed. (When the game was about to be released, nearly every tester had almost no crashes from the game anymore, and the server definitely did not crash.) Even professional games come out with bugs in them (many of which are on consoles, and are difficult to patch (well, used to be)), and at least we did not do as bad as an EA game.

Fortress Forever 2008 will be coming out soon, btw, with a new roster and a team management system. Watch for it in your local game stores, only $60 with the special holographic cardboard sleeve!
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:17 PM   #304
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I heard [sYn]Vicious was unlockable after you beat the game 4 times....
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:09 AM   #305
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I heard [sYn]Vicious was unlockable after you beat the game 4 times....
Yeah but all he has is an umbrella and moves slower than a HW.
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:47 AM   #306
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Quote:
The beta system works.
Quote:
Bugs like in the 1.0 release were, to the testers, virtually nonexistant; otherwise they would have been squashed.
I have no doubt that you guys have tackled an enormous number of bugs and I still commend the effort on making FF. But making statements like this are exactly why we have so many doubts on some of the changes.

Being primarily an A/D player, you still have an obvious bug in dustbowl that's been present ever since 1.0. On the second gate, there is a smashed window area where engineers commonly put their sg's in TFC. In FF when sg's are placed there, they do not detect the enemy whatsoever and are completely useless. This is a bug that has been present ever since release. I noticed this the first or second time I played the map in FF and it's already been brought up in the forums. So by saying this is nonexistant to testers only undermines my confidence that the current changes have been explored thoroughly. Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of the changes sound interesting, but it looks like A/D is not considered much, which is primarily what I play FF for.
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:53 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilledsanity
I have no doubt that you guys have tackled an enormous number of bugs and I still commend the effort on making FF. But making statements like this are exactly why we have so many doubts on some of the changes.

Being primarily an A/D player, you still have an obvious bug in dustbowl that's been present ever since 1.0. On the second gate, there is a smashed window area where engineers commonly put their sg's in TFC. In FF when sg's are placed there, they do not detect the enemy whatsoever and are completely useless. This is a bug that has been present ever since release. I noticed this the first or second time I played the map in FF and it's already been brought up in the forums. So by saying this is nonexistant to testers only undermines my confidence that the current changes have been explored thoroughly. Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of the changes sound interesting, but it looks like A/D is not considered much, which is primarily what I play FF for.
TFC Dustbowl =/= FF Dustbowl.

The same spots don't always work. Find new ones. That isn't a map bug, it's your stubbornness.
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:01 AM   #308
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Uh?

The window in front of the gates or the one near the grenade pack?

If it's the window front the gates, you can't suggest seriously that Engineers have to find a new spot to place SGs. It would be the same that not allowing to build SGs in the ramp room of 2fort, for example, or inside the FR. That spot is critical for the defense if it plans to hold the enemy at the gates, which is the primary objective on every sector of any Dustbowl-style map. If that SG isn't there, the Offense will eventually break through the right gate and will have an easy shot against any SG up in the left building. Placing the SG in the ground is useless, since there aren't ammo packs near and random grenades will eventually destroy it.

The window near the grenade pack is used often to build SGs, but never was a problem since a rocket spam or a sniper could take it effortlessly, so it's not a big deal not being able to build there if you ask me.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:10 PM   #309
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The same spots don't always work. Find new ones. That isn't a map bug, it's your stubbornness.
Wow, I wasn't expecting a complete denial of the problem and have it blamed on stubbornness. I already have been using different positions, thanks. Just to clarify, here are some screenshots of the areas I'm talking about (click for larger view):





It looks like I'll be leaving FF soon if a similar attitude is taken towards A/D bugs in the 2.0 patch.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:42 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek.
You still have to pretty much get direct hits. Blues are still quite easy to dodge, but instead of being able to ignore them completely if they miss you, you have to pay attention to where they are headed.
That's what he meant... a 1.1 second delay makes blues useful even if they don't get a direct hit. It makes the demo a considerably better DM class, which was classically the best way to deal with a demo piping the flag. I'd love to see you dodge 6 blues with a 1.1s delay.

IMO, it's too much to be changing for a "patch". Completely redoing the scout's abilities is something that should have been done well before the game went live (if at all... I think scout was fine as it was).

I do like the minor changes for balance, but I'm getting the feeling the major changes will just reintroduce a new line of balance issues and a number of new bugs. FF will be in beta forever at this rate.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:44 PM   #311
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Is this the main building out of gate 2?
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:45 PM   #312
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I think we should all pretty much shut up, let it come out, THEN bitch about it.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:52 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Satan
Is this the main building out of gate 2?

It looks to be just that Satan. I have encountered this bug as well, I thought it was because it just wasn't tracking people quickly, but now that this has brought up, I do believe that it is a bug of some sort. Maybe an entity there that makes it a full wall, but it doesn't LOOK like a solid wall...if that makes sense...lol
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:03 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Hammock
Yeah but all he has is an umbrella and moves slower than a HW.
Yeah, but when you beat it 4 more times, he's full time God mode with 1 hit kills with the umbre with teh speed and stealth of a cheetah!
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:07 PM   #315
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Squeek: Check out your own bug list for 1.0. #4 under Maps in particular:

http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...ad.php?t=10676

I guess I am stubborn if I spot obvious bugs, but then am told they either don't exist, I should quit bitching, or I should just wait for the next patch when that's already happened twice.

I'm not upset you guys have bugs, that's inevitable. What I'm annoyed about is how some people just write off obvious issues that can break gameplay (like this) and form an attitude of denial or dismissal over it.

Let me ask, before this thread was started, were there any plans to fix this bug for the 2.0 patch?

Last edited by chilledsanity; 01-31-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:12 PM   #316
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I heard [sYn]Vicious was unlockable after you beat the game 4 times....
How do I shot web?
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:14 PM   #317
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Chilled, can you please clarify what building that is...I want to help you get this noticed, but I can't if you ignore my question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Satan
Is this the main building out of gate 2?
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:16 PM   #318
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Chilled, can you please clarify what building that is...I want to help you get this noticed, but I can't if you ignore my question.
That's the building directly in front of gate 2.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:18 PM   #319
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Sorry, I missed your question. I don't know if it's the "main" building, but I included 2 screenshots for reference. You can see the #2 gates in the background of the first screenshot.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:34 PM   #320
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Ok...cool I never knew this existed, but this is something major. I have linked this post to the beta forums and will try to get this fixed for 2.0.

I am sorry for the hostility you received, but you have been heard and I promise that the AvD community is not something that is being overlooked. I will update you with status once I have something.
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